¹⁹⁷⁴

Tuesday, 12 March 2002

[Open session]

[The accused entered court]

--- Upon commencing at 9.34 a.m.

JUDGE MAY: This is the decision of the Trial Chamber on the issue of the admissibility of statements under Rule 92 bis. We have considered the Prosecution motion for the admissibility of 23 statements under the Rule. In principle, we will admit the statements under the Rule, but subject to two conditions.

The first is this: Because of the cumulative nature of the evidence and the fact that it will increase the already very extensive number of witnesses proposed to be called by the Prosecution in this case, and bearing in mind the need for an expeditious trial, the Prosecution will be limited to four witnesses per municipality, including the viva voce witnesses already called. The Prosecution is to select which of the Rule 92 bis statements it wishes to have admitted for those municipalities where at the moment it is proposed more than four witnesses. The second condition is this: Because, in the view of the Trial Chamber, the evidence proposed to be given is subject of an important issue in this case, those witnesses whose statements are admitted will be required to attend for cross-examination, the Prosecution being allowed in each case to ask some introductory questions.

Written reasons for this decision will follow in due course. We shall also consider any necessary adjustment to the timetable for finishing the Prosecution case and any application to extend the number of ¹⁹⁷⁵ witnesses, on good cause being shown.

Mr. Ryneveld, we've just been handed a summary of a witness. It appears that there's going to be another change in the order; is that right?

MR. RYNEVELD: Not that I'm aware of, beyond the list that we provided the other day. The one thing that may have happened, Your Honour, is that my understanding is that once the present witness, Mr. Loku, is finished, we will call Mr. Bucaliu, followed -- depending on how long that takes, there is a -- we anticipate calling Dr. Ball tomorrow. If there is time left at the end of the day, we might have the opportunity of moving up another witness. But that was more a consideration to accommodate the accused's concern about getting the B/C/S translation of the document, and we thought that giving him an extra evening of preparation time might well be of assistance. However, it's hard to predict whether we'll even get that far today. But in the event we do, that is a possibility. I trust that meets with the Trial Chamber's approval.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you. I propose, then, to continue with Mr. Loku at this time.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let's have the witness.

[The witness entered court]

WITNESS: HAZBI LOKU [Resumed]

[Witness answered through interpreter] Examined by Mr. Ryneveld: [Continued] ¹⁹⁷⁶

Q. Mr. Loku, yesterday before we broke for the day with your evidence, I had asked you, if I recall correctly, whether upon your return from Macedonia you returned to your village of Kotlina, and I believe you indicated you had, and you told us that you found your village to be destroyed. Am I -- is that a fair summary of what you told us yesterday?

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. And, sir, I believe at that point I asked you whether or not you had brought some photographs with you to The Hague, and I'm going to show you now some enlargements of those photographs, if I may.

MR. RYNEVELD: And we have, first of all -- yes. Thank you. Just so the Court knows, I intend to show him the first of three photographs. That's it.

THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 56.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Q. Now, Witness, you're looking at a photograph.

MR. RYNEVELD: Might that be placed on the ELMO, Mr. Usher. Is it coming up yet?

I don't know if the ELMO is operating, Your Honour. We're not getting a picture.

There we are.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, here it is.

MR. RYNEVELD:

Q. All right. Sir, first of all, is that a photograph that you brought with you?

A. Yes, this is a photograph I brought. ¹⁹⁷⁷

Q. And what do we see in this photograph? What is that a photograph of?

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Tapuskovic.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we had received this photograph earlier, all of us, in the documents that we see -- that we received several months ago. We had received these photographs earlier. Therefore, I don't see what the problem is here now. Why are we asking this gentleman whether he brought these photographs in? Because we've had these photographs for several months now.

JUDGE MAY: Let him describe what the photographs are.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you.

Q. Sir, what is this a photograph of?

A. This is a photograph of the burned school where I used to work. After we returned from Macedonia, we cleaned it up. This is the photograph of the burned and destroyed school.

Q. All right. And that's in Kotlina; correct?

A. Yes, it's in Kotlina.

Q. All right. I'm going to show you now another photograph, if I may.

MR. RYNEVELD: Mr. Usher. Perhaps we could give both sets now so it will save time. Could you distribute those two photographs. And could the first of those be placed on the ELMO and shown to the witness.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes, we can see it.

MR. RYNEVELD:

Q. This is another photograph that you brought with you, sir, and ¹⁹⁷⁸ we've had enlarged; is that correct?

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. And can you tell us what is shown in this particular photograph?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Judge May.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tapuskovic, what is the objection?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Well, the objection is, Your Honours, that these photographs already exist. I don't see what kind of an explanation this is, that the witness brought them in now. These are photographs that we received several months ago. Isn't that undeniable?

JUDGE MAY: You may have received them, but the Court has not seen them, and we don't know what they are. The witness must be allowed to explain what the photographs are. Now, we'll get on more quickly without interruption.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Well, no, I agree, Your Honour. That's quite correct. But I don't understand what this means when they say that the witness brought these photographs in today. I'm asking this because there are some things I would like to touch upon later. I don't find this clear.

JUDGE MAY: You can ask him in cross-examination.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you.

Q. Witness, what is this a photograph of?

A. This photograph shows villagers returning after their expulsion to Macedonia. It shows them assembled, and in front of them there are the coffins which were later taken for burial. They are the burial of the people who were massacred and who were exhumed by the Tribunal and were ¹⁹⁷⁹ prepared for burial.

Q. And the building in the foreground, more or less immediately behind the row of people, what is that? What building was that?

A. Behind the people, there is the house of Baki Kuqi, a two-storey house. You can see two entrances from the road. It's the shop, and the other part is the residence, the dwelling part of the building. This house is separated from the school only by the road. It's on the other side of the road.

Q. And was this building destroyed during the course of the events that you described to us in your evidence yesterday?

A. Yes.

Q. And this -- I'm sorry. The final of the three photographs, sir, I take it that --

MR. RYNEVELD: I'm sorry. Do we have that yet? Has it been distributed? Will you please distribute the final photograph, Madam Registrar.

THE REGISTRAR: This photograph will be numbered Exhibit 57. The present photograph, Exhibit 58.

MR. RYNEVELD:

Q. Would you look at this photograph, please, Exhibit 58, Witness. Is this another slightly different angle, a shot of the same building in the background on the right?

A. Yes. This is a photograph of the same building, but you can here see the yard and the coffins which are here, have been brought from Kacanik, and here are the people on the street, waiting. ¹⁹⁸⁰

Q. All right, sir. Now, just one question about those photographs. Did you personally take them or were they given to you to bring with you?

A. I took them myself.

Q. And when did you take them?

A. I took these photographs when I came back from where I was. There were a lot of photographs of this kind when we went to the funeral.

Q. Yes. And the month and the year in which you took these photographs, please?

A. These photographs must be from September, when the funeral took place. I don't remember the date, but it was September.

Q. And that was 1999, was it, sir?

A. Yes, in the same year.

Q. Now, one final issue, sir. I want to back you up to -- you've told us about witnessing an explosion after the men were put into the two holes you talked about yesterday. Upon your return, sir, did you find out who was missing in your village?

A. It was while we were in Macedonia that we really found out who was missing, by asking relatives, and then we counted 22 people who were missing. And then, later, they were brought out of the pits for examination, although some people hoped that some of their relatives would in fact have survived.

Q. And were the bodies that were taken out of the pits identified, sir?

A. I believe they all were.

Q. Now, you say that you saw these young men being thrown into the ¹⁹⁸¹ pits; is that right?

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. From your vantage point, could you tell their identities as they were being thrown in? Could you see who they were?

A. I don't understand.

Q. From what you saw at the time they were being thrown into the holes, could you see who those young men were who were being thrown in the holes? Did you know them? Did you know them by name?

A. Yes, I knew the names of each one of them.

Q. And have you brought with you photographs of the names of the people who you say were thrown in the holes?

A. Yes. I brought a photograph of each one of them, except for one of whom I couldn't find a photograph because all of the photographs were burned in their house. But I have brought photographs of all the others, and I can identify them. I grew up with them and I knew them all.

Q. And the one person for whom you could not find a photograph, is that an individual that you mentioned in your evidence yesterday?

A. Yes.

Q. And his name?

A. His name is Idriz Kuqi.

MR. RYNEVELD: Schedule L, the first name, Your Honours. There's no photograph.

Q. Now, sir, these -- you brought us, I believe, some 24 photographs, individual small photographs, did you, sir?

A. Yes. ¹⁹⁸²

Q. And you have seen that we have prepared five pages of a collage of those photographs? You've seen that?

A. Yes.

MR. RYNEVELD: I propose now to produce a further exhibit, with a legend, and perhaps we can make these five pages of photographs one exhibit number. And there's also a legend that will go with it. I don't want the legend shown to the witness, but I want the Court to have it.

Q. Now, Mr. Loku, you'll see that there are some five pages of photographs of individuals. Do you recognise those photographs as being copies of the ones that you brought with you? Just quickly look at the pages. Are those copies of the photographs you brought?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And could you tell us, please, looking at the photograph -- each of these photographs now has a number above the photograph. Can you tell us, please, the name of the individual, starting with photograph 1. Who is that?

A. Number 1 is Adnan Loku.

Q. And that's on the schedule. Now, Adnan, I believe in the schedule it's spelled A-t-a-n. Is that a correct spelling of the first name, sir, or is it Adnan, A-d-a-n [sic]?

A. Yes, Adnan, A-d-n-a-n, with "d." Adnan.

MR. RYNEVELD: I believe that's the sixth name down on the Schedule L, Your Honours.

Q. Photograph number 2, who is that?

A. Number 2 and number 8 are brothers. One 16 and one 17. One of ¹⁹⁸³ them is called Ibush and the other is Naser. I could get the names mixed up.

MR. RYNEVELD: Those names are on Schedule L, Your Honour.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Loku is their surname.

MR. RYNEVELD:

Q. Thank you. Photograph number 3, sir?

A. Number 3 is Mina Kuqi, a school pupil.

JUDGE MAY: We have the legend. We have the photographs. Unless there's any dispute about it, I don't think we need go through them all. We shall, of course, look at them, and we will be able to see ourselves what the photographs show.

MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. That may well be a better course of proceeding, Your Honour.

Q. Now, I just have a couple questions of clarification.

JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Ryneveld, I just wanted to find out a question. On the legend, several names similar to the witness's. Are these relatives?

MR. RYNEVELD: I asked that question, Your Honour, and perhaps we should have the witness --

Q. Yes. Many of these people, sir, that you have talked about have the same last name as you. Are any of them relatives or is "Loku" a common name in Kotlina?

A. I could tell you about each one of them. Number 2 and number 8 are the brothers Ibush and Naser Loku. They were the sons of Rexhep whom I talked about yesterday. ¹⁹⁸⁴

Q. So they were relatives of yours?

A. Really close cousins, but they were from the same village. There were two other brothers, Agim and Ismajl Loku. There were a lot of them who were each other's cousins and who happened to be together. There are cousins Danush Kuqi, who is a secondary school pupil. That's number 10. Xhemjal Kuqi, number 12. He was his cousin. Sherif Kuqi, 11, was a cousin, and Ismajl. Number 21 was his cousin, a closer cousin. They were first cousins of each other.

Q. All right.

A. Shall I go on?

JUDGE ROBINSON: I just wanted to know how many of them were relatives of yours. It appears that some of them were. Thank you, Mr. Ryneveld.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you.

Q. Now, for example, number -- photograph 23 --

A. The Kuqi family were cousins among themselves, not my cousins.

Q. Except for -- as I understand it, sir, you told us yesterday that Zymer Loku, number 23, he was not found in the holes was he? You told us, I believe, that you personally found him in a -- in a house. He was wounded and died later.

A. Yes. Photograph 22 was the 72-year-old man Zymer Loku. He was wounded, fatally wounded, and his right leg was cut off, and we found him in the house yard.

Q. And similarly, 23 is your brother Milaim Loku?

A. Yes. That's the photograph of my brother. ¹⁹⁸⁵

Q. And he also was not in the holes?

A. No. He was in the river.

MR. RYNEVELD: Given Your Honour's comments about the legend, I might just have one further question.

Q. Sir, there are -- these are the 24 photographs you brought with you, which include two people who were not in the holes; is that right?

JUDGE KWON: No. How about number 1? Idriz Kuqi was also shot in a separate place.

MR. RYNEVELD: That's the one for whom he did not have a photograph, Your Honour.

JUDGE KWON: Okay.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you. I believe those are -- given Your Honour's comments, you have the legend. If the legend can also go in, then, as part of the exhibit, I believe that obviates the need for any further exhibits.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Exhibit number?

THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 60 and the legend 60A.

MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you, Your Honours.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The microphone wasn't switched on. Thank you.

Before I start asking my questions, I should like to draw your attention to the following: This is an example of a manipulation with semi-truths on behalf of the Prosecution which must not be allowed --

JUDGE MAY: This is not the time for comment, Mr. Milosevic. That ^{1986 BLANK PAGE 1987} point has been made quite clear. It's the time to ask questions. Now, if you've got matters to put to the witness, put it to him so he can deal with it.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes. Don't worry. I can do that through my questions as well.

Cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:

Q. [Interpretation] You worked as a professor in the school and technical centre in Kacanik; is that right? Yes or no.

A. I worked there for two years.

Q. Did you work in the actual school building or in a private house?

A. Where I was working, I was in the school.

Q. You also worked in Kotlina as a teacher; is that right? Did you work there in the school building or in a private house there?

A. In the building.

Q. So in both cases, you used the state school building and not private houses; is that right?

A. Yes. In the two places where I worked, I worked in the schools.

Q. What do you know about the fact that in Kotlina there was the main headquarters for transferring weapons from Macedonia, that it was located in Kotlina?

A. This is a lie of yours. It is not true.

Q. How far is it from Kotlina to the Macedonian border?

A. About 12 to 15 kilometres.

Q. And it is located at about five kilometres from Kacanik, on the right-hand side of the main road running from Pristina to Skopje; is that ¹⁹⁸⁸ right?

A. It's on the right as you go from Prishtina to Skopje. I don't know how far. Maybe, as the crow flies, five kilometres, no more. I don't think it's five. On the road that I travel, it's three or four.

Q. All right. So much the better. The village of Kotlina is adjoining to the village of Kotlanica [phoen], which is where the crossing to Macedonia is on the Urosevac-Tetovo road on the slopes of Mount Sharre; is that right?

A. Yes. There is a road to Gllobocica.

Q. The village of Kotlina, via the village of Ivaja, is linked to Jezerce, is that right, across Ivaja?

A. No. Jezerci is far away, in Ferizaj mountains. It's another way.

Q. How far is it from Kotlina, I mean?

A. I can't give you a figure.

Q. Roughly.

A. Ferizaj is some 30 kilometres away from Kacanik. We are closer to the border. Maybe it's some 40 or 50 kilometres from Elez Han.

Q. Yes, but I'm asking you about Jezerce. What's 50 kilometres away from you? Kotlina?

A. Since you asked me -- I thought you asked me about the distance between Kotlina and Jezerci, if I'm right.

Q. Yes. How far is Kotlina from Jezerce?

A. I think 40 kilometres. I've never been there. I can't give you an exact figure.

Q. Do you know -- are you familiar with the position and role of ¹⁹⁸⁹ Jezerce in Kotlina during the war and before the war?

A. Regarding Jezerci, I might say that in summer, or earlier, we heard the shelling of it, but I don't know exactly what went on there.

Q. Do you know that Jezerce was one of the main strongholds of the KLA for the entire region of Kosovo and Metohija?

A. I've heard that KLA was stationed there, but I can't tell more than that.

Q. All right. Let's go back now to your municipality. As you worked in the municipality and in the school, do you happen to know that in the municipality, 85 people were employed, 62 of them were Albanians? Are you aware of that figure?

A. I've never worked in the municipality myself, so this is what you are saying. I have always worked in the education sector. I lived in the municipality in the last years of my life. Even though our municipality was 99.99 composed of Albanian population, none of us worked there, I think.

Q. In the municipality there were 85 employees, of which 62 were Albanians, and as far as the figures that you have put forward, that figure is incorrect. There were 2 per cent Serbs, which would make it about 300 -- not about, but 335 Serbs and about a thousand Romany. Are you aware of that, of those figures and that information?

A. I am not aware of any figures, and I don't know that these people used to work in the municipality. When I had to go to the commune to take some documents, I always encountered only Serbs there.

Q. And do you know that in the Sharre factory at Djeneral Jankovic, ¹⁹⁹⁰ right next to your village, of the 1.700 workers, more than 1.500 were Albanians?

A. I know that there were Albanians in the past, but lately it was full of Serbs.

Q. How could it have been full of Serbs when you said a moment ago that there were no Serbs in that municipality of yours?

A. Not in the municipality, but they came from Shterpce commune, and the Albanians who worked there were fired from their jobs and sent home. There were three villagers of mine who were close neighbours, and they were fired from their jobs and stayed at home.

Q. Where were they fired from?

A. You know better.

Q. I really don't know in Kacanik what the situation was.

JUDGE MAY: Just answer the question, if you would. You said they were fired from their jobs and sent home, including three neighbours of yours, and the question is: Which jobs were they fired from?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They used to work in this factory, doing various jobs. That was a cement-producing factory, and they did various jobs there. One was a mechanic, one was in another workshop there, and so on.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. All right. Let's clear this matter up. I say that of the 1.700 workers, there were more than 1.500 Albanians working in the factory right up until the war. Is that true or not? Yes or no. One thousand, five hundred were Albanians. ¹⁹⁹¹

A. I never worked in that factory, and I can't give you exact figures, but when we went to the marketplace on Wednesday, we always used to see Serbs driving to and from that plant.

Q. All right. And are you aware of the fact that in Kacanik, there were more than 300 members of the Socialist Party of Serbia; of that number, 220 were Albanians; and the secretary of the board was somebody called Hanka Luka, an Albanian lady? Do you know about that?

A. I am not aware of that. I was never myself a member of that party, so I don't know anything about its membership.

Q. Do you know that in Kacanik, an Albanian party was set up, and it was called the Albanian Democratic Initiative, and the president of that party was Faik Jashari? Are you aware of that?

A. This name doesn't ring a bell. I don't remember anything about him.

Q. Let me remind you. Faik Jashari was also a member of the state delegation in Rambouillet, at the negotiations that were held in Rambouillet. Do you remember that? Does that ring a bell? Does that help you identify the person I'm talking about?

A. No. I think you are fabricating such names. I don't know of any names like this.

JUDGE MAY: Just deal with the questions, please. We'll get on more quickly.

Yes, Mr. Milosevic, we've dealt with this question.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Very well.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] ¹⁹⁹²

Q. Do you know that in Kacanik a local police force was set up made up exclusively of the representatives of the Albanian ethnic group and a small number of Romany? Do you know about that?

A. No.

Q. Do you know that, from the village of Kotlina, the coordinators for the local police force were Bashkim Loku. He has the same surname as you do. His father's name was Sulejman. So Bashkim Sulejman Loku, and Shaban Zenujlla Kuqi. Do you know about that?

A. Yes, I know these persons personally. I never knew they were policemen because I've never seen them wearing uniforms. They are both alive to this day; one living in Kotlina, the other in Ferizaj.

Q. And do you know that members of that local police force were exposed to constant threats and attacks by the KLA?

A. What happened in the Serb police I know nothing about, but I don't know they were in any way endangered by someone else.

Q. It was the Albanian police. According to my information, 12 members of the local police force were killed or kidnapped by the KLA, and my question is do you know any one of these people: Nisem Tusha, Alia was his father's name. So it is Nisem Alia Tusha. Osman Kuka. The father's name Xheladia [phoen]. Bektish Melushe Dardiste [phoen]. Selim Agusha Topolani. Shajip Emina Reka. Riza Faik Kiki. Bedri Shefki Berisha, Qamil Emin Reka [phoen], Gazim Azem Sinanovic [phoen], Dalip Emin Reka, Shaban Zenujlla Kuqi, and Baskim Sulejman Loku. Have you heard of any of these people? Do you know any of these names? They were all local policeman. As you can see, they were all Albanians and some Romany, one ¹⁹⁹³ or two Romany. Do you know anything whatsoever about these people?

A. I said that I know the two names you mentioned earlier. They are my co-villagers. I know them in person. They are alive to this day. As far as the other names are concerned, I can't tell you anything. I don't know if they were police in uniforms, regular police, that is. They were policemen. They must be in Serbia somewhere.

Q. Are you familiar with the fact that the KLA, according to the local security, and they were a local police force, so not members of the Ministry for the Interior, do you know because -- that because of their relationship towards the local security people and generally the members of the Albanian community who were loyal to the state, that the KLA, first of all in the village of Ivaja and then in Kotlina, formed prisons for them, set up prisons for these people? So I'm talking about Ivaja and Kotlina, those two villages, the ones that you mention in your testimony.

A. I've never heard of that, and I don't -- and I don't think that that was true. What you are saying, these people who are police, they must have been staying with the police. So I know nothing about them.

Q. Do you know that in the village of Ivaja, in a prison of that kind, they found and released a group of 15 Albanians who were prisoners there? Do you know about that?

A. No. I've never heard anything about that.

Q. Talks were held with them and there is a videotape about that, but you heard nothing of that? Fifteen Albanians?

JUDGE MAY: He says he knows nothing about it.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. ¹⁹⁹⁴

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Do you know about the fact that before the NATO bombing in Kacanik, there were many Albanians who were loyal to Serbia, a large number of them, and that a group of -- in the summer of 1977 [as interpreted] sent letters of support, and also in the spring of 1998 also sent a letter of support to the authorities, energetically calling for the suppression of Albanian terrorism? Do you know about that? It was written up in all the papers which were sold in Kacanik, and it was from the municipality of Kacanik that the event came from.

JUDGE MAY: The date -- one date has been translated for these letters of the summer of 1977.

THE ACCUSED: 1997.

JUDGE MAY: 1997; very well.

THE ACCUSED: 1997.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. And the next expression of support was --

JUDGE MAY: Let the witness deal with the question so far. What is said is that in the summer of 1997 and the spring of 1998, letters of support were written from Kacanik, calling for suppression of Albanian terrorism. Can you assist us about that or not?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I know nothing of what he is saying. Nobody told me that there was any such letters written. Those who have -- who may have written those letters might know something. I know nothing.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] ¹⁹⁹⁵

Q. Forty-eight Albanians and Romany sent that letter, and that took place on the 23rd of March, 1998.

JUDGE MAY: He says he knows nothing about the letter.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. And do you know about a decision of the Executive Council of Kosovo and Metohija dating to February 1999, a February 1999 decision stipulating that the Municipal Assembly of Kacanik should give out free of charge land for individual housing construction to Albanians who were citizens of the SRY -- FRY? Sorry. Who were citizens of Yugoslavia, in fact.

A. I have never read any Serb papers, so I know nothing about that either.

Q. You don't know that people built houses on that land, that Albanians, Yugoslav citizens, built houses on that land that they got free of charge?

A. I know that in my own village, everybody built his own home in his own land, and nobody assisted them.

Q. Do you know that, afterwards, the KLA destroyed these houses of theirs because they built it on state-owned land? Do you know anything about an event of that nature, anything similar?

A. I know nothing that -- I know nothing about it, and it seems absurd to me what you are saying.

Q. It is probably so. Do you know that during July and August 1998, two large groups of terrorists were arrested, both coming from Urosevac and Kacanik? They were arrested by the police. Are you aware of that? ¹⁹⁹⁶

A. I was all the time minding my own business. I went to school and went back home, and I know nothing about that.

Q. And do you remember - it's not a big town, after all - in December 1998, by the village of Dimce near the border with Macedonia, when a large quantity of weapons was seized? I'm linking this to the first question, that Kotlina was used as the main channel for obtaining weapons from Macedonia. So in December 1998, by the village of Dimce at the border with Macedonia, a large quantity of weapons was seized, and on that occasion the following persons were arrested: Berisha Valon --

JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Let the -- let the witness deal with the question.

You were asked about December 1998, and it is alleged that there was a seizure of a large quantity of weapons at Dimce. Do you know anything about that?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Dimce is on the other bank of the river. It's far away from where I live. I've heard that there are Serb police stationed there and that in Han i Elezit they arrested some people, but I don't know the motive for that. And usually we didn't trust the Serb media because usually there was a lot of propaganda on it.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. I said Dimce at the border with Macedonia. Usually what is seized is something that is illegally being taken across the border.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. What is the next question?

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. The question was: Does he know these persons who were arrested, ¹⁹⁹⁷ that is to say, Berisha Valon, Berisha Ekrem, and Topolani Naser?

A. I never knew these people. I know nothing about them.

Q. None of them are from Kotlina?

A. No, none of them is.

Q. You know all the inhabitants of Kotlina, don't you?

A. Yes.

Q. Are you aware of what happened in February 1999 when, in the village of Djurdjev Do, the KLA attacked a police patrol? Three policemen were wounded then, and five members of the KLA were killed. Do you remember that event in February 1999?

A. No. I never heard about it.

Q. And do you remember that on the 20th of February, 1999, around 9.00 in the evening, that is to say 9.00 p.m., Selim Topolani was kidnapped from his own house and taken out of it barefoot? He was president of the Albanian Democratic Initiative for Kacanik.

A. I'm unable to answer this question.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, we've been through this with other witnesses. This witness cannot help as to these various allegations you're making. You will have the opportunity in due course to -- you will have the opportunity in due course to present evidence. You've put your case very fully to him. Now, I suggest you move on and deal much more with his evidence. Time is not limitless.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That's precisely what I'm dealing with, his statement, because all of these terrorist actions preceded the event that the witness is treating as a central event, and now we're ¹⁹⁹⁸ getting go that.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Are you aware on the 27th of February that in the village of Gajre a member of the local guard was abducted, and he also worked in the factory called Krecara, Riza Kiki? An ethnic Albanian as well.

A. I don't remember. I don't know anything about this.

Q. And do you know on the 28th of February, around 1300 hours, again in the village of Gajre, a large group of terrorists attacked the police, who were going out looking for Riza Kiki, and on that occasion the commander of the police, Bobuljub Staletevic [phoen], was killed and three policemen were seriously wounded; then a terrorist was also killed, Asaj Etema, from the village of Gabrice - he was in uniform and he had a hand-held launcher with two grenades that had not been fired - and the rest escaped? Do you remember that incident?

A. I did hear that something happened at Gajre. During that time, the Serb patrols used to torture the people, and I heard that something happened, but I can't give you any names about the victims.

Q. All right. So now we've reached the end of February, the first days of March, the kidnapping of Topolani, the kidnapping of the local policemen, the killing of a police patrol, and now we are getting to this beginning of March that you had been talking about. Is it correct what I'm going to state right now: that fighting was taking place in that area, that the KLA was emptying villages, using empty houses as fortified positions, which necessarily led to the fact that they were shooting at the police from there, and this therefore made the Serb ^{1999 BLANK PAGE 2000} forces react to that? Is that correct?

A. I don't know what happened there, but as for my village, I can answer about my village.

JUDGE MAY: Help us with this, Mr. Loku: Was there any reason that you could see for the attack which took place at the beginning of March and on the 24th of March on your village? Was there any background to that which might explain it, as far as you're concerned?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In my view, there was no reason for my village to be attacked.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] May I proceed?

JUDGE MAY: Yes.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. You haven't answered my question. The KLA emptied villages, used empty houses - and I'm including the village of Ivaja there, the one that you started with - they used empty houses as fortified positions, which --

JUDGE MAY: He said, Mr. Milosevic, in answer to that: "I don't know what happened there, but as for my village, I can answer about my village." That was his answer to your question.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, but may I remind you, then, that here he stated that the village of Ivaja was attacked, and he's from the village of Kotlina, which is near Ivaja, and he started his whole story with the attack on the village of Ivaja, and that's what I'm referring to now. As for what I've just read, I read it from the report of the Verification Mission of the OSCE. But now I shall go on.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] ²⁰⁰¹

Q. Is this assertion correct: "Although it seemed that the villagers were on the side of the KLA, there were reports that local people were forced to show support for or join the KLA."

Is that correct or not, what I've just read out to you? Just say yes or no, make a comment, whatever you prefer.

A. I'm not saying either yes -- the truth is, around the mountains of Ivaja, the KLA was present. They had gone out voluntarily. Nobody forced them. They could no longer stand the tortures to which the Serbian forces submitted the population. Anybody who wished joined the KLA. That is what I know.

Q. A short while ago I quoted to you how the KLA emptied houses and turned them into fortifications, from which they were shooting at the army and the police, and that's what this report says as well. That's why I'm saying that the explanation is a manipulated one.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, this is all comment. You can put the report in front of us in due course, but for the moment confine yourself to asking questions of this witness. He said he doesn't know anything about what's written in the report. Now, can you move on.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That's precisely what I've been talking about. What is the key point in the witness's statement is some kind of an attack on Ivaja and then Kotlina, caused by nothing, according to him. It was all actually the other way around.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Do you know -- ²⁰⁰²

JUDGE MAY: This is his evidence. Now, you put your evidence in front of us and we'll consider it, but there's no point arguing with the witness when he's given his evidence, given his account. Now, can you move on.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Fine. I'm just asking about Kotlina. Please.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Do you know that the KLA detained, against their own free will, in the village of Kotlina, refugees? They were not allowed to leave, although the KLA and the UNHCR had an agreement on safe passage for refugees outside the areas of conflict. Are you aware of that, that villagers, refugees in Kotlina - I'm talking about the beginning of March - were not allowed to leave Kotlina? The KLA didn't allow them to do this, although the KLA had an agreement with the UNHCR on safe passage for these people to get out of the zone of conflict.

A. This has been made up. No villagers were kept hostage by anybody. I was in this village. They remained freely in their houses. They had no reason to go anywhere. When fighting began nearby, we tried to get away, but you killed us.

Q. Please, what is written here and what I've read out to you: The KLA did not allow people to leave the zone of conflict --

JUDGE MAY: He has said it's not true. Now, we can't go further than that. It's his answer.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. All right, Mr. May. I'm just drawing your attention to the fact that this is written in the OSCE ²⁰⁰³ report, the Kosovo Verification Mission report dated the 11th of March.

JUDGE MAY: We have been through that. In due course you can put that report in, but for the moment you're asking this witness questions and you've got his answer. There's no good going on about it.

JUDGE KWON: The question was about the refugees from other villages, not about the villagers of Kotlina. Could you answer that? Were any refugees kept hostage by KLA in your village?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, there weren't any.

JUDGE KWON: Yes. Proceed, please.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. After these clashes, when the verifiers finally got to your village, managed to visit Kotlina, that is, they found the inhabitants of Kotlina there and many displaced persons from nearby hamlets. They claim that then the bodies of three men were found, who were identified as members of the KLA. Is that correct? Do you know anything about this?

A. In our village, there was never any clashes between anyone. On 10th of March, the OSCE Verification Mission members came. They took some old people and women of Dreshec neighbourhood, that was burned down, and took them to Kacanik. We asked them that they take us away too, to some safer place, but they told us that Kacanik was full of refugees from other hamlets and there was no place for any more refugees. So they told us, "Stay where you are, because we will take care of you." And this is what happened. Until the 23rd of March, they stayed in our village and we felt safe. That was all.

Q. During this incident, that is to say, when the Mission came, the ²⁰⁰⁴ OSCE mission, when they came to your village, do you know when the problem came up when the commander of the KLA did not allow the UNHCR access to displaced persons in your village, in the village of Kotlina? Do you remember that?

A. I don't remember to have seen any KLA members there. I am saying that there wasn't any KLA members there. I said that OSCE observers came, and they removed -- displaced some people of that neighbourhood that was burned down. As for the rest, we stayed there. You had better ask the OSCE observers. They might give you a better version.

Q. Since I wasn't there either, I'm asking you about what I read in the report submitted by the OSCE monitors. They had a problem. The KLA did not allow the UNHCR access to displaced persons in Kotlina. So you know nothing of this; right?

A. I know only that the OSCE monitors came to Kotlina, took away some people - nobody prevented them - and that when we asked them to help all of us, to take all of us to Kacanik, as I said, they said that there is no more room there to shelter more people, because people were coming in from the surrounding villages every day. So they told us that it is rife with refugees, Kacanik.

Q. All right. Now I'm going to put a specific question to you, without beating about the bush. This also stems from the report of the OSCE. It says:

"Although the problem had been resolved and the representative of the KLA apologised, there were also indications that the KLA was responsible for such a large number of refugees because they used these ²⁰⁰⁵ villages as the front line of the conflict itself." So do you know anything about this? Do you know why the KLA used the village as a front line of the conflict itself?

A. I don't think that has been true of the KLA, because the KLA members were staying in the mountains. And we were not refugees. We were residents of the village. We were staying in our own homes. We were not afraid of KLA, because we looked upon them as our defenders. We were afraid of the Serb forces, police and army forces.

Q. My question was: What do you know about the use of village houses as the front line in the conflict between the KLA, on the one hand, and the army and the police on the other hand? What do you know about that?

A. This has never happened in my village. There were no KLA members and no confrontations between them and the Serb forces.

Q. On the basis of what the report of the Verification Mission says, it seems to have been the other way around.

JUDGE MAY: The witness said -- the witness has given his answer. Can you move on.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] If he has given an answer, it's a very significant answer.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. At the beginning of March 1999, on the road between Djeneral Jankovic and Seciste, Goran Milicevic was killed from an ambush. He was a lieutenant and he was in a privately owned vehicle. Do you know anything about that killing, the beginning of March 1999?

A. No, I don't know about this. I don't know the names of the ²⁰⁰⁶ killed. Later we did hear that somebody was killed, but I don't know who it was.

Q. All right. Do you know at least about the killing of Ziber Curri, a member of Rugova's party, the DSK, that the KLA killed also at the beginning of March 1999?

A. I heard that he was killed. I don't think what you say is true.

Q. And do you know that on the 27th of March, in the evening, at 1850 hours, that the terrorists attacked the police station at Stari Kacanik?

A. Could you give me the date again, please?

Q. The 28th of March, 1999. No, the 27th of March, 1999, at 1850 hours, the police station in Stari Kacanik was attacked.

A. I crossed the border on the night of the 24th of March. I don't know what happened after then.

Q. But you spoke here about many things that you had heard about subsequently from your fellow citizens, from other villagers, et cetera. So it is logical that you could have heard about incidents of this nature. You have probably heard of some events.

Did you hear, for example, that on the 28th of March, in Stari Kacanik, a cluster bomb was thrown and it encompassed two hectares and created about 80 craters? Are you aware of that? This is your municipality.

A. No, I haven't heard of this.

Q. And are you aware of anything about a terrorist attack that was carried out with hand-held rocket launchers in the street Boro Vukmirovic [phoen] in Kacanik against the police, carried out by 20 armed terrorists ²⁰⁰⁷ wearing camouflage uniforms, and nine policemen were wounded on that occasion? Are you aware of that incident?

A. No. I don't know.

Q. And do you know about an attack near the house of Enver Koka in the new neighbourhood of Kacanik? This was a terrorist attack against the members of the police when a large quantity of weapons was seized and a when a number of terrorists were liquidated? Do you know anything about that?

A. No. I haven't heard of this.

Q. And do you know in your neighbourhood, in the village of Doganovici, that NATO bomb killed five persons, Albanians? Two children were seriously wounded. The children had found a cluster bomb and tried to open it and then the following persons were killed: Hoxha Fisnik, born in 1990 was killed, a child.

JUDGE MAY: Let the witness deal with the question. Do you know anything about this incident?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The village of Doganaj is not a neighbourhood of Kotlina. It's a long way away. I don't know what happened there.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Are we talking about the same village? I say it's the village of Doganovici. Is that the same thing?

A. I said Doganaj is not my village. I live in Kotlina.

JUDGE MAY: Do you know anything about a cluster bomb being found by children, people being killed? ²⁰⁰⁸

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I heard that some children were wounded there, but I don't know about anybody being killed, and I know that the children were taken to Italy for treatment. But Doganaj was another village. I don't know what happened in Doganaj.

JUDGE MAY: It's now 11.00. We will adjourn. Half an hour. Would you be back, please, Mr. Loku, at half past eleven.

--- Recess taken at 11.00 a.m.

--- On resuming at 11.30 a.m.

JUDGE MAY: The registrar wants to change an exhibit number.

THE REGISTRAR: The last exhibit submitted, the bundle of colour photographs, has to be numbered Exhibit 59 and the legend 59A instead of 60.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Have I understood correctly that you said that you did know about the children who were the victims of the cluster bomb?

A. I never heard about a cluster bomb. I know that in another village, two or three children were wounded by a bomb, but whether it was a hand grenade or what, I don't know. They went to Italy for treatment. And this -- it can be demonstrated who they were.

Q. And do these names mean anything to you: Hoxha Fisnik, born in 1990; Hoxha Valdet, born in 1984; Hoxha Burin [phoen], 1985; Hoxha Edon, 1985; Hoxha Osman, 1985. These are the years of birth. These persons were killed and Hoxha Bersnik, 1984; and Hoxha Avdija, 1980, all from the village of Doganovici were wounded. Do these names ring a bell? ²⁰⁰⁹

A. No. I don't know anything about them, and I don't know anything about them.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] May I make one remark there, comment, because there seems to be misunderstanding fairly frequently with respect to names here on the transcript and geographical names, too. Let me say that geographical maps are an international resource and that you must use the names that exist on the maps.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Do you know about an event that took place when the vice-president of the Municipal Board of the Socialist Party of Kacanik was kidnapped and a worker on the railway and transport company at the Kacanik station, his name was Mahmut Darlishta, with one of the Reka brothers in the Reka Brigid [phoen]. Mahmut was found dead in the village of Dure and, later on, Mahmut's son Esad was abducted. Do you know anything about those incidents?

A. No. I know nothing about this.

Q. And do you know about the kidnapping of Mile Vuksanovic from Pristina, who was otherwise a sanitary inspector who was visiting a friend of his, a hunter in the area? His name was Xhemal Strazha?

A. No. I have never heard of these names or these things.

Q. Have you heard of another event when a NATO projectile hit the PTT station and destroyed the surrounding facilities in the Kacanik area? Once again, do you know about that?

A. No, I haven't heard about this, but the post office is still there and it's still working. ²⁰¹⁰

Q. And do you know about the killing of Captain Milan Milenkovic in a terrorist attack by a storehouse belonging to Kacanik-Comerc, a privately owned company?

A. I don't remember this name, and haven't heard about his murder. I know nothing about this.

Q. And do you know about six Serb families from Jankovici and 28 from Kacanik who fled to Stari Kacanik? They were fleeing the terrorists at that time. Do you know about that event?

A. I don't know anybody fleeing from terrorists. From Serbian terrorists, yes. Entire villages were emptied and people went to Macedonia.

Q. I asked you about the Serb families, the Serb families fleeing from --

JUDGE MAY: He said he doesn't know.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. All right. When did you yourself return to Kacanik from Macedonia?

A. I returned home from Macedonia around the middle of August, together with my family.

Q. Did you hear, when you came back, that in Kacanik a retired policeman by the name of Slobodan Stojkovic had been killed, who returned from Stari Kacanik to his own apartment?

A. No.

Q. And are you aware of, also dating back to those days, the fact that from Stari Kacanik a group of people were kidnapped - Dragi ²⁰¹¹ Stankovic, with his wife Zivka and his daughter Gordana - by the village of Gajre, and that his daughter and wife were raped before his very eyes, and that they were then killed and he himself was badly wounded? Members of KFOR found the dead bodies of Zivka and Gordana by the Partizanski Put, at the junction going towards Brezovica, on the road there. Do you know about that event?

A. I haven't heard about this and I don't believe such a thing happened, because the Serbian civilian population no doubt went away before the Serbian bodies arrived -- Serbian forces arrived.

Q. Today, in Kacanik, is there a single Serb left?

A. There were never any Serbs in Kacanik. I don't know if there are any now.

Q. There were Serbs before, as you know, and I'm asking you whether there are any left now.

A. There were Serbs in Kacanik i Vjeter, but in Kacanik itself, but apart from the policemen, there were no Serbian inhabitants.

Q. Well, you said a moment ago that when you went to the municipality, that you would encounter only Serbs there, and they, of course, were not policemen.

A. Yes. They worked in the municipality. There were Serbian municipal workers, but they weren't from Kacanik. They came either from Kacanik i Vjeter or from Shterpce. They weren't from Kacanik itself.

Q. But apart from those working in the municipality, you also spoke a moment ago of the fact that they were employed in companies, a company from which, as you said, the Albanians were expelled. So how come you can ^{2012 BLANK PAGE 2013} marry the two, say that there were no Serbs and then say that there were?

A. I will say what I said before. Except in the village of Kacanik i Vjeter, in which there were Serbs living, in the other 14 villages they were all Albanians. The population were all Albanians, and employees and policemen and the workers in the factories were Serbs. That was what I said.

Q. Do you know that all 40 Serb houses in Stari Kacanik were looted and burned?

A. I saw burned houses when I returned from Macedonia and passed that way.

Q. And are you familiar with the following fact: that the KLA, after the arrival of KFOR in Kacanik, destroyed all catering establishments belonging to Albanians given to them by the Kacanik municipality, or shops?

A. The shops were destroyed, but these were shops that were licensed by the Serbian authorities, and they were built along the river and they were built in unsuitable places. They were built along the road which connected the clinic with the town. And that was why they were pulled down. They weren't destroyed by the KLA, but they were demolished by the municipality.

Q. Do you know any of these names: Riza Jivoreka [phoen], Jumni Berisha [phoen], Kalishi Enver? They are all people whose shops were pulled down. Do you know any of them?

A. Yes, I've heard these names, and these are people who are in Kacanik somewhere. If you need them, they can testify themselves about ²⁰¹⁴ their shops. I know that they do have shops.

Q. Is it true that in Kacanik and Djeneral Jankovic, no facility was burned or destroyed except the house from which firing came, and there was firing at the MUP and the army, the police and the army?

JUDGE MAY: Can you help as to that or not?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't understand the question. But there were no houses along the main road between Kacanik and Han i Elezit.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. I'm talking about the places Kacanik and Djeneral Jankovic, those two places.

A. What do you mean by this?

Q. I said that not a single facility was destroyed except for one house, from which they opened fire at the members of the MUP and the army.

A. I don't understand what you're saying.

Q. I want to know whether that is true or not.

JUDGE MAY: He doesn't understand the question. Now, rephrase it, please.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. I claim that in Kacanik and Djeneral Jankovic, according to my information, not a single facility was destroyed, nor was it shot at, except for one house, a house from which there was shooting at members of the MUP and the army. I don't know what is not clear in that question.

A. Now I am clear about the question. You are wrong. You have got ²⁰¹⁵ wrong information, because over half of Kacanik houses are destroyed as well as those of Han i Elezit's. They were burned by the Serb police and army forces. There are many witnesses to that. Not only the houses but people were killed and mutilated. All this was committed by your army and troops.

Q. All right. I claim the opposite. I was just asking you whether you knew about it or not. But let's move on and go on to what you said about the 24th of March. First of all, you said that the army shot from tanks, fired from tanks, but that the shells did not fall on the village itself but around the village.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. What is the question?

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Does he know that there were KLA positions located there?

A. I already said and I am repeating that they didn't shoot from tanks' barrels but from weapons placed on the tanks and other weapons carried by your soldiers and policemen. They shot at random. They shot at the houses of the village. They didn't shoot at a certain target because nobody was firing back at them from the village. I was there and saw everything.

Q. You say that nobody shot -- did any shooting from the village, and my information says that seven members of the KLA, wearing uniforms, died there. Do you know about that? They were killed in the fighting that took place in the village.

A. There wasn't any clashes in the village, and there weren't any KLA troops there. The KLA troops were far away in the mountains. That's why ²⁰¹⁶ there wasn't any clash there nor any KLA members killed but only civilians were killed.

Q. And do you know that after that, on the spot, an investigating Judge and prosecutor from Rosevic went out to investigate and that all the documents in connection with the conflict that took place in your village and the death of those seven KLA members was sent to the Court in Pristina?

JUDGE MAY: He has said there were not KLA members killed. So the question involves something which he hasn't accepted. Do you know anything about the court in Pristina or anything about the investigating Judge?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I haven't seen any investigating Judges, with the exception of Serb police and army mutilating and killing innocent people.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. So you didn't see those seven members of the KLA that were killed there either.

JUDGE MAY: He said not, Mr. Milosevic. He's denied it. Now, there's no point putting it to him again.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. All right. Does he know that the police, after the event, searched the pits, the holes that he's talking about, and that in those pits or holes, they just found weapons, and a large quantity at that of tins and the remnants of KLA equipment because those pits served as a basis -- as a base, sorry, base, of the KLA in Kotlina? ²⁰¹⁷

A. This is all made up. The KLA never operated in our village, and whoever wished to join the KLA ranks, he might do so because the KLA troops were in the mountains. So these are all -- this is all made up by the Serb power.

Q. Those two holes or pits which they descended into with ladders, one was five metres deep, the other was seven metres deep, and they were joined together and they served as a warehouse. Did you know about that?

A. No, I don't.

Q. When the police arrived, there were no bodies in those holes except for those weapons. How come nobody reported those dead bodies at the time?

A. I already said and can repeat many -- as many times as you wish that there were no bodies there. There were no arms there. These two holes were dug by some peasant many years ago who was looking for water, and he was unable to find any waters, but the holes remained there empty all the time. And what you are claiming here is just a concoction, I would say.

Q. All right. You said that on that day, and I made a note of that, the soldiers left the village. How do you explain the fact then that, after the army had left the area, nobody went to those wells once the army had left? You said when the army left, you all rushed to see what was happening -- what had happened to the livestock, the cattle, but you didn't rush to see those victims that you talked about, the casualties. So how do you explain this?

A. I have stated everything in my written statements. After the ²⁰¹⁸ departure of the occupation, criminal Serb troops from the village, Chetniks and police troops, after their departure, I and others returned to the village. We knew what had happened in those holes that I talked about, but it was night. People went there to see what had happened, but it was impossible. It was very dark up in the mountain. They couldn't see anything. And it was only after some days that we realised what had happened there. We saw what had happened there.

The father of Rexhep Loku, I said that his two sons were killed. He found there belong -- things belonging. I mean, it is very difficult to say what he had found. Remains of their bodies, pieces of fingers left, broken teeth, stained clothes, stained with blood, things like that, as well as a Serb cap belonging to police was found there. KFOR troops got that cap with them.

Q. You said yesterday that when the army left, you went to see to the cattle and that nobody went towards those wells. Why did you forget the casualties of which there were some 20-odd allegedly --

JUDGE MAY: He's just answered the question. He said some people went there but it was dark. Now, that's his answer.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, if you say he gave an answer, all right, but he didn't give an answer to why nobody reported it if it was true.

JUDGE MAY: Very well. The question is this: It's not clear to who somebody should have reported it, but the question is why did nobody report it?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't get the question. ²⁰¹⁹

JUDGE MAY: Well, I suspect it's been saying why didn't you report it to the Serb authorities? Why didn't you ring up or something of the sort?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] But the Serb authorities had already committed the crime. How could we report it?

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Very well.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. All right. But the investigative Judge and the prosecutor went there to the crime scene. So wasn't it logical for someone to draw their attention to that? The investigating Judge or the prosecutor certainly had not committed any crime. They came there for an on-site investigation. How come nobody drew their attention to this?

JUDGE MAY: Can you help us to that?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The village was empty. There was nobody left. People were killed. The civilian population was headed towards Kacanik. The others, like me, were hidden, were in hiding places. And I don't know if there was anyone else, with the exception of police and army troops, there. One thing we all knew, that who was captured was killed on the spot.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. According to your statement, there were KLA members around your village, as you had put it; there were operations between the army and the police and the KLA; and on the basis of what you've been saying, it was only civilians who were getting killed. So who was getting killed: civilians or members of the KLA? ²⁰²⁰

JUDGE MAY: I think he's dealt with all this. We're now going into argument. Mr. Milosevic, you've had more than an hour and a half with this witness. Now, unless there's some new topic which is relevant, it's time to bring your cross-examination to a close.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. I'll bring it to a close.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Distinguished Honour, if you want, I may give an answer to that.

JUDGE MAY: No. You've dealt with all these matters.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Are you aware, in relation to these events that were first carried in the Albanian newspaper Fakti, on the 16th of April, that practically all statements are given afterwards, after that date, that is, and that in the OSCE book, it says that:

[As read] "Therefore, what could superficially seem as identicalness in the statements of witnesses could have been coloured in some way by newspaper articles."

That's what their book says. Do you bring this together with the event itself?

A. I have never given any testimony to Fakti newspaper and do not know what it has been carrying. I have only stated what I know to the ICTY Judges, investigators, even though that I didn't know that the day would come when I would be here. But this is what happened, and I am happy to be here.

Q. And do you know that what is said there in that book that I've ²⁰²¹ been referring to, that peasants were interviewed on the 30th of September and that they confirmed that 11 members of the KLA were among the casualties, according to their statements?

JUDGE MAY: He has given his evidence about the KLA. Now, there's no need for constant repetition.

Yes, Mr. Ryneveld.

MR. RYNEVELD: Your Honours, since the accused has been repeatedly referring to the OSCE book, I believe, in fairness to the Court, that the Court ought to have copies of this book. He seems to be quoting from pages 218 and 219, at the moment, of the OSCE book, as told, which is projected as an exhibit in our case. It has not, of course, been entered. I wonder if it might be helpful to the Court to have a copy of that, since it's been extensively cross-examined on, much like you receive statements from time to time.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, it may be helpful, but let's try and finish this witness's evidence, please.

MR. RYNEVELD: But that's the offer, that should the Court want it, we would like to tender it.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Now, Mr. Milosevic, have you anything else for this witness? Otherwise, we must close the examination.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I do. I do. I don't have a lot left, but I do have something left nevertheless, related to what we've just heard.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] ²⁰²²

Q. On the other hand, I'm interested in when you gave statements, and to whom, in relation to this.

A. I gave my statement in Skopje. If I am not mistaken, it was the end of April. I don't remember the exact date.

Q. To whom? The end of April, but to whom? Only the representatives of the OTP or somebody else?

A. The representatives of the OTP, of The Hague Tribunal. I have the evidence with me, I mean the name of the person who interviewed me, if you want.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That's precisely what I have been asking you about, because if it was only to the representatives of the OTP, then the OTP, according to your Rules here, is duty-bound to safeguard this information. I am drawing your attention to this question, not the witness. How can this same thing appear in the book, then? Is it the Prosecution that --

JUDGE MAY: Don't argue now.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right.

JUDGE MAY: If you've got some questions about the statement, ask it, but otherwise we'll bring this to an end.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. In this paper that accompanies your written statement, it says why he doesn't have a passport: lost. Why he does not have a birth certificate: lost. Why he does not have other documents: lost. How did you lose all these documents of yours?

A. Whoever had the documents had them on him [as interpreted]. I ²⁰²³ don't know. I had my own ID when I went to Macedonia, where I was registered as a refugee. I don't know about the others.

Q. All right. All right. That is just contrary to what it says here. Here's this paper of yours, I mean the paper of this institution, where it says "Hazbi Loku" and all these particulars: date of birth; place of birth; passport, does not have it, lost; birth certificate, lost; other documents, lost. So then this information provided here is inaccurate. You actually did have all these documents, didn't you?

A. I had only the ID. The passport I had left at home. I didn't have my passport. It was expired and it was no good to me.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. I just want to make yet another note. Since it is clear to everyone that the Prosecution has available all these documents, including the Verification Mission of the OSCE, the Prosecutor is no doubt manipulating this witness, trying to portray events differently from what they actually were like.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, you are not to make comments and arguments now.

Mr. Tapuskovic, have you got any questions for this witness?

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I am making a comment, Mr. May, because --

JUDGE MAY: No, Mr. Milosevic. You can make your comments in due course. Now, I'm going to ask Mr. Tapuskovic to begin his cross-examination.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. This time I will indeed only adhere to the events related to the 9th of March, ²⁰²⁴ the 24th of March only. I shall be putting questions related to the statement that he, Mr. Loku, that is, gave on the 4th of June, 1999 - it was submitted to us - and also this statement that Slobodan Milosevic has been referring to. I'm not going to insist on that, but I would like this other statement that he's been referring to, if it does exist, could the Prosecution please make it available to you, the first one of the 12th of June and also this other one that you gave in Albania. I think that you should also have it before you.

JUDGE MAY: Yes.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I shall be very brief.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Ryneveld, yes.

MR. RYNEVELD: I don't know whether I misunderstood the question, but is it the intention to have the Court have a copy of the witness's statement? Is that what he's going to cross-examine on?

JUDGE MAY: Let's hear the cross-examination.

MR. RYNEVELD: Fine. I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought Your Honour's "yes" was that.

Questioned by Mr. Tapuskovic:

Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Loku, yesterday, when you spoke about what had happened in the village of Ivanje, you said that around the village of Ivanje, there were KLA soldiers and that they helped the inhabitants of Ivanje to avoid the worst destiny. That is what you said yesterday, by way of an explanation.

A. Yes, that's what I said, and that's how things were. There were confrontations. ^{2025 BLANK PAGE 2026}

Q. You said around the village of Ivanje. But in the statement that you gave on the 4th of June, 1999, you said:

"I knew that in Ivanje" - in Ivanje, not around Ivanje - "in Ivanje there are members of the KLA, and I believe they were resisting the Serb forces. I could see a lot of smoke rising from this village." That's what you said then.

A. Yes. I said around Ivaja. On the 8th of March, there were clashes between KLA liberation forces and the Serb occupation forces. At the same time, the inhabitants of the village I think were there, but during the resistance, it lasted three days between the KLA and the Serb forces, they managed to flee the village and escape the worst, even though a civilian was killed. And we found that out later. He was a sick person. Xhemil Mulaku was his name. He was killed in the vicinity of the village while he was trying to hide away. He was sick and was unable to flee with the others.

Q. Thank you. So it was not around the village. I'm telling you that you said then in the village of Ivanje there were members of the KLA and that then all of this happened, this three-day fighting. Not around Ivanje, in Ivanje.

A. I said "around," because in Ivaja there was a population which the KLA didn't stay with the population. It stayed in the mountains, I said.

Q. So it is not correct what it says here in your statement, that you knew that in Ivanje there were members of the KLA?

A. Maybe it has been written wrong, but the fact is that even the mountain where the KLA troops were stationed belonged to the territory of ²⁰²⁷ Ivaja, but they were not in the village.

Q. Thank you. I'm just saying to you that this is what you said then. That a mistake or --

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tapuskovic, you've dealt with this now.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

Q. Let us now move on to the 9th of March, in the morning. You said yesterday that shells were falling all over the village, that the shelling of the village came from the east and the north and that then you had to decide to leave the village and that that is indeed how you left the village. Did I understand you correctly?

A. Yes.

Q. However, in your statement dated the 4th of June, 1999, you said: "On the 9th of March, at around 4.00, two rockets were fired over my village. These were rockets that illuminate the village. This lasted for only about 20 seconds. We the villagers were then afraid that the village was about to be attacked and we were preparing to flee. The villagers that had seen the rockets had started to wake up friends in other villages."

And then you said, "Due to these villages [as interpreted] fired over the villages, about 30 villagers scattered about," and all in all, it was the rockets that were the reason that made you go in the direction of Globocica. Not the shelling because there was no shelling. That's the way you'd put it then.

A. You've mixed things up, as I see. On the 9th of March, there was shelling around the village, first sporadically and then incessantly. All ²⁰²⁸ these things I experienced, it's difficult to put them down on paper. We were the only ones left. We heard that all the other villagers of the surrounding villages had been sent to Macedonia. We too, therefore, wanted to flee the village.

Our village was visible from three Serbian positions, and they continually moved round the village. They could see us from Serbian army positions at the place called Kashan. They could see us from Gllobocica and also round from the position in Kaburanca. In other words, we were always under their control. So it's quite ridiculous what you say about the KLA being there.

Q. Mr. Loku, I didn't mention the KLA at all. I said that you said that your village had been shelled. You did not say that earlier on to the investigators. You said the two rockets were fired that only illuminated your village and that that was the reason why you had left. You did not mention that a single rocket was fired. This is the statement you made on the 4th of June, 1999. I did not make a mistake. I've read it ten times, believe me.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. The witness has dealt with that.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

Q. When the column arrived in the village of Preshec, when you left the village, you explained what you saw. You saw burned and burning houses. You said, "From my position, I could see clearly only two houses, and I saw when they started to burn." I believe you that that's what you saw. But you said yesterday that from there you saw, and you said it several times at that, that all these houses were being looted, that ²⁰²⁹ things were being taken out of them. You'd never mentioned that before.

A. From the point I was looking at, I saw the first two or four houses of the neighbourhood. That was not a village. It was a neighbourhood of Kotlina. The neighbourhood was empty because its inhabitants had left it several days ago and had gone to the centre, fearing that it was being fired from Serb positions of Gllobocica. So the Serb forces, when they entered there, I saw them looting these two, three, or four houses. Then later, we realised that all these houses were burnt. None of them remained intact.

Q. I have understood you. I understood that yesterday. That's the way you put it yesterday. However, before, you said you only saw two houses on fire. You saw these houses burning, and I believe that's what you saw. But you never mentioned that you had seen things taken out of these houses. You said that the houses were burning from the inside.

A. I could see the police and the soldiers going in and coming out of the houses. They were empty of inhabitants. And then they set fire to the houses, and wherever they went in, they looted and raided. It was fact of life. Everybody knew, because this was happening all the time everywhere. The women had been robbed of their jewellery, and everything was --

Q. Thank you. I asked you what you saw, and before you said what you saw, and I believe you, but yesterday you said --

JUDGE MAY: We have been through this now and you have made your point, Mr. Tapuskovic. Can we go on, please?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I think you're quite right. I ²⁰³⁰ would like to draw the attention of the Court to the following. It's in the English version. That's why I decided to ask about it today. It's on page 5, in the last paragraph, the beginning of the last paragraph, page 5 of the English version.

JUDGE MAY: [Previous translation continues]... please. Give it a number.

THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 60.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Tapuskovic.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. See, it refers to the well and those two holes, and the time mentioned is about 1530 hours. Mr. Loku, is that what you saw, what started happening? What you said yesterday about people being thrown into those two holes, was this at 1530 hours, that it started around then?

A. After the departure of women and children from the village, then they were -- the men were taken to the holes. It was about that time. I didn't keep a diary or didn't keep watching at the time, but this is more or less the time that I think it happened. I was feeling endangered myself.

Q. You know that the army and the police were taking them, and you said that there were about 150 of them, that they were taking them up a small hill; is that correct?

A. They were taking them up towards those two holes.

Q. No. You said that they were climbing up a small hill, that they were taking them up a small hill.

A. The Serb police and the army were fewer in numbers than police, ²⁰³¹ were taking those civilians, with their hands behind their necks, after the departure of women and children, I said, towards these two holes up in the mountain. But it is in a higher place above the village. There is a high hill. It might be 200 or 300 metres above the sea level.

Q. Was the distance that you were at -- you were viewing it from which distance?

A. I was viewing it from a place which was about 400, 450 metres away in a straight line from these two holes. It was in the southern part. The holes were situated in the northern part.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, could we please place on the overhead projector Exhibit 84 [sic].

JUDGE MAY: 84?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] 54. 54. I have a blown-up version which does exist in the Prosecution files. The Prosecution did not exhibit it, and I'm surprised that they didn't because you can see things much better there. And it is in the Prosecution files, so could we please have this blown-up photograph shown rather than the first photograph. The Prosecution does have it in its files. And then could we have this shown to the Court as well.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tapuskovic -- You have a blown-up version of this?

MR. RYNEVELD: We have many photographs. Time doesn't permit me to put them all in. I don't know which one my friend is showing me, but --

JUDGE MAY: Just put it on the ELMO, the one that you want seen. ²⁰³²

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Please take a look. It's the same photograph that the Prosecutor showed but it's just much bigger.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Now, what do you want the witness to look at?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Could the witness now please show the spot where he was and where he was while he saw all of this. See, this is a forest.

A. Yes. There is a forest, but it was divested of leaves. There were no leaves, so everything was visible.

Q. There are a lot of evergreens there, too. Can't you see that, a lot of evergreen trees, conifers?

A. On 24th of March there were no evergreens. Everything was bare. I could see everything.

Q. Could you please just show us the spot where you were.

A. The spot where I was is not in this picture, but it was somewhere here at this corner.

Q. Further away, you mean. All right. And now from a 400-metre distance, as you put it a few minutes ago, you saw all these persons by name and surname as they were being killed. You saw from a 400-metre distance how they were being killed and thrown into that hole. You saw them all, knowing exactly who they were, name and surname. That is what you answered when you were asked awhile ago.

A. You have mistaken what I said. I didn't say at that -- I didn't know who they were by name and last name at that very moment. I only saw what was happening to them, whereas their names and last names we managed to find out later when we -- we heard about that when we were in ²⁰³³ Macedonia. I couldn't see their faces, of course, from the distance I was. I could only see their movements and what was happening.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Could this picture, which is also in the Prosecution files, be shown. It shows the two pits, the two holes, from nearby.

Q. Are these the two holes surrounded by a forest, by big trees? You can't see a thing. Please take a look at it.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] The Prosecution has this picture, but they didn't show it.

Q. Are these the two holes?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] And would the Prosecution kindly present that evidence so that the Trial Chamber can take a look straight away.

JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Just a moment. Let the witness deal with it first of all.

Do you recognise those holes or not?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can make out these holes, but it doesn't look like them to me.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I have two more photographs.

Q. Could you tell me whether you recognise those, of the spot itself?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] And these are all from the Prosecution file.

A. Yes. Here you can see it clearly.

JUDGE MAY: Would you put it on the ELMO, please. ²⁰³⁴ Yes. What's the question?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] The question is this: This is a small area, deep in the forest, lots of big trees around it, and you can't see anything from the big trees, not from five or six metres away, where there were 150 to 200 policemen. Now, the question is --

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tapuskovic, it's not for you to give evidence.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] All right. I agree. Thank you.

JUDGE MAY: The witness has said that he could see. Now, unless you've got a particular question about this photograph, we'll move on.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] The question is: If he was at a distance of 450 metres, how was he able to see what was going on deep in the forest somewhere, in one particular spot, which was surrounded by these large trees, as can be seen on these photographs?

JUDGE MAY: The witness has answered that. He said he could see. Did you have anything to help you besides your own eyes?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I answer?

JUDGE MAY: Yes.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The hills and the forest and the holes are surrounded by oak trees, and it's a steep area, and you could see. Because it was on a slope, you could see everything. It's a hill, I would say very steep, and there are oak trees, and the oaks are not so close to one another as the photograph seems to suggest, and at that time of year, the oak trees were bare.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] That was the 24th of March, which means spring, well into spring in those parts, and the trees have green ²⁰³⁵ leaves during that time of year.

JUDGE MAY: He said there weren't any leaves on the trees. Now, Mr. Tapuskovic, are you disputing that this event occurred?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] No, I am not disputing it, nor did I have any intention of doing so, that in those holes they found what they found. The only question is how this came about and what actually took place. But I am not challenging it, no. Far be it for me. But I have to ask myself, under the present circumstances, why the Prosecution didn't show all the photographs it has, for us to be able to see for ourselves.

JUDGE MAY: You've heard the reason. Now, have you any more questions for this witness, please?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Well, if it is big trees with thick trunks, and if it was March, and I know full well that the trees are green --

JUDGE MAY: We have been over this now a number of times. The witness says he could see. There were no leaves on the tree, he says. Now, we have his evidence. If we have any evidence to the contrary, we'll consider it in due course, but I think you've really covered this topic as far as you can.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I should like to ask for the Court's indulgence, that is to say that the Prosecution provide the Trial Chamber with the material it has, which are these photographs. If that is not possible today, then the Trial Chamber will be able to notice certain facts without me having to comment. I did believe that the Prosecution ²⁰³⁶ would show the photographs, just like it did the ones a moment ago, because it's all in one file, a whole set of photographs. They have them. I have seen them. The Court has been provided with them. So ...

JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Ryneveld, do you have any evidence to give the Chamber as to when these photographs were taken?

MR. RYNEVELD: Yes, Your Honour. When we submit the forensic report, which I believe has been tendered -- all these photos that my learned friend is now referring to were taken by the Austrian forensic team in September of 1999, September. We have to be selective about -- time doesn't permit us to put bundles of photographs in. I chose the photographs which I thought best depicted the scene. Now, if my friend wants those in, we have them and we can provide them to the Court. That is not the issue.

JUDGE MAY: Would you do that, please.

MR. RYNEVELD: Yes, we shall.

JUDGE MAY: Now, anything else for this witness?

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Yesterday he said that after seeing the people being thrown into the pits, that a little later on he heard an explosion. How much later? When did you hear the explosion? How much later was it?

A. This powerful explosion, it was before the evening.

THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter asks the witness to repeat his answer to the question.

A. This explosion at the holes happened after 5.00, at about half past 5.00, in other words, shortly before the withdrawal of the Serbian ²⁰³⁷ forces.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. All right. But earlier on in your statement dated the 4th of June, you said that the explosion could be heard some 30 minutes later, that is to say, after the moment you saw the event happen.

A. I said that the event lasted about 30 minutes, all what happened, but this explosion that I talked about happened a little bit later.

Q. You said some 30 minutes later, from the point where the hole was, a strong explosion could be heard. That's what you said in your previous statement.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. He's answered that. There's no need to answer.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

Q. Just one more thing. You said on the occasion that as soon as all the Serbs left the place, after they had managed to put the tank right, you went to tend to the livestock, to the cattle, and you left the village at 2200 hours. Now, if that is so, I have to ask you once again why nobody went to see what had happened to the people up there while it was still daylight. Why didn't you go straight away to see what had happened? Why did you not do this? And then that will be my last question. I have no further questions.

A. During the day, the Serb forces committed atrocities against the population, and we didn't dare go near where they were. We went to that place where [as interpreted] they left the village. That is how it happened.

Q. But you didn't go on that same day, did you, when they left? ^{2038 BLANK PAGE 2039}

A. The Serb police and army left in the evening, when it was getting dark. We went to Macedonia in the night, at about 10.00 or 11.00 p.m., I think, after what happened.

MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Thank you, Your Honours.

MR. RYNEVELD: No re-examination. Thank you, Your Honour.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Loku, that concludes your evidence. You are now free to go. Thank you for coming to the International Tribunal to give your evidence.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, for making it possible.

[The witness withdrew]

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Ms. Romano.

MS. ROMANO: The Prosecution calls Bajram Bucaliu.

[Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

[The witness entered court]

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the witness take the declaration.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. If you would like to take a seat.

WITNESS: BAJRAM BUCALIU

[Witness answered through interpreter] Examined by Ms. Romano:

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you please state your full name for the Court.

A. I am called Bajram Bucaliu. ²⁰⁴⁰

Q. Now, with a yes or no answer: You are 44 years old, and you were born in Gnjilane on the 16th of June, 1957?

A. Yes.

Q. You are married and you have three children?

A. Yes.

Q. Since 1964, you have been a resident of the village of Fshati i Vjeter, Albanian name, and Staro Selo, the Serbian version, in the municipality of Urosevac/Ferizaj in Kosovo?

A. Yes.

Q. May I have the witness shown -- it's OTP reference number 2274.

MS. ROMANO: And I have copies here. This is a map, a new version of a map that has already been disclosed to the amici and to, I think, the Court also. It's just the same map without the spots, blue spots. It is a map of Kosovo.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you please look at this map and can you indicate to the Court where is your village located.

A. Yes. It is here at this place.

Q. Thank you, Mr. Bucaliu. Mr. Bucaliu, you worked at the Ferizaj railway station from 1982 until 1999?

A. Yes.

Q. And you are currently working as a supervisor in the petrol station?

A. Yes.

Q. In your village in Fshati i Vjeter?

A. Yes. ²⁰⁴¹

Q. What is your ethnicity?

A. I am an Albanian.

Q. Were most of the people in your village Albanians?

A. Yes.

Q. And were there any Serbs living in your village?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have an idea approximately how many Albanians and how many Serbs?

A. In my village, there were about 900 Albanians and 60 to 70 Serbs.

Q. Was your relationship with your Serbs -- with the Serb neighbours good?

A. Yes. At the time, up to 1990, it was relatively good. But after 1990, it changed.

Q. Okay. We will get to the point where it changed. Coming back to your employment at the Ferizaj railway station. From 1982 until 1987, you worked as a signalman at the Ferizaj railway station. That's correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And at the same railway station, you worked as a cargo inspector from 1987 until 1992?

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. And as a cargo cashier from 1992 until 1999?

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. And how far is the railway station from your village, Mr. Bucaliu?

A. The railway station is about three and a half kilometres from my ²⁰⁴² home.

Q. And you used to go every day from your village to the railway station to work?

A. Yes, every working day.

Q. Thank you.

MS. ROMANO: I propose to show the witness -- it is OTP reference number 95, and it is a hand-drawn sketch done by the witness and it shows his village. I have copies here.

THE REGISTRAR: The map will be numbered Prosecution Exhibit 61.

MS. ROMANO: Thank you.

THE REGISTRAR: And the drawing Exhibit 62.

MS. ROMANO: Thank you.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, do you recognise this hand drawing?

A. Yes, I recognise it.

Q. Did you make that?

A. Yes. I drew it myself.

Q. And is this your village?

A. Yes. It's my village.

Q. Can you -- so can you please indicate to the Court where -- where is your house located?

A. Yes. I will show them. Here are the three houses of my brothers and myself.

Q. How many people live with you?

A. Until the start of the war, there were 16 of us living in the same yard in several houses, but now I'm only with my own family which has five ²⁰⁴³ members.

Q. And which direction, using the same drawing, which direction is the railway station?

A. [Indicates]

Q. And can you also explain the road? Where does this road lead to?

A. From my village to the Ferizaj-Gjilan asphalted road. It goes on to the station.

Q. Which are the neighbouring towns or villages?

A. The surrounding villages bordering on my village are Sojeva. Bibaj, Komogllave, Varosh. These are the neighbouring villages and also the outskirts of Ferizaj.

Q. How far is it from Pristina?

A. From Prishtina to the crossroads of Ferizaj, it is 35 kilometres.

Q. And how far is it from the border to Macedonia?

A. This crossroads is also about 30 kilometres from the border with Macedonia.

Q. How many houses do you have in your village prior to the war?

A. Before the war, the village had about 120 houses.

Q. Thank you, Mr. Bucaliu. Before March 1999, how many employees worked at the Ferizaj railway station?

A. Before March 1999, there were about 25 staff at the Ferizaj railway station. According to requirements, the number fluctuated.

Q. And how many of them were Albanians?

A. There were about 17 or 18 Albanians and about eight Serbs.

Q. Was your supervisor Albanian or Serb? ²⁰⁴⁴

A. He was a Serb.

Q. At any time did you have an Albanian as your supervisor?

A. The stationmaster, during the time that I was working there after 1982, was never an Albanian except occasionally when there was -- when there was a replacement, it was sometimes an Albanian, but there was never an Albanian appointed to the job.

Q. And were the relations between the Albanians and the Serbs in your work good?

A. Yes. We had quite good relations with my Serbian colleagues. For a time, that is, up until the 1990s. But after 1990, relations started to cool. Personal relations began to cool during the 1990s.

Q. What -- what was the reason that made the relationship between Albanians and Serbs cool down?

A. I think this happened because things happened. Unpleasant things happened in the political arena, such as the constitutional changes. This was a reason which had a great influence on this cooling of relations between the Albanians and the Serbs, because the constitutional changes denied us many rights which we'd had until that time, such as, for instance, the use of language at the workplace.

Q. How was the language --

JUDGE MAY: Ms. Romano, I think it's 1.00, it's just after 1.00. We'll adjourn now.

Mr. Bucaliu, we're going to adjourn until half past two. During this adjournment and any others there may be, don't speak to anybody about your evidence until it's over, and don't let anybody speak to you about ²⁰⁴⁵ it, and that does include the members of the Prosecution team. Could you be back, please, at half past two.

--- Luncheon recess taken at 1.00 p.m. ²⁰⁴⁶

--- On resuming at 2.34 p.m.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Ms. Romano.

MS. ROMANO:

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, if I understand correctly, constitutional changes in 1990 denied the Albanians the right to use the Albanian language at work.

A. Yes, that's right.

Q. Can you explain to the Court how was this change implemented in your work?

A. It was implemented, and at first, we tried not to observe this constitution, and for a year -- after a year, we were given various warnings and various punishments, but finally we were obliged either to accept this thing or to leave our jobs. And at this time anybody who didn't obey these rules would either lose his job or would be held accountable and would have to do as the Serbs said. To give you a specific example, when the station name plate was changed, when the name Ferizaj was written in Albanian, it was changed to Urosevac in Serbian, and the Albanian sign was taken away and a Serbian sign was brought in with only "Urosevac" written on it. To better illustrate this, there were some other examples in which my workmates, our wages were docked if we didn't observe these rules.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, just to clarify to the Court, what was the language or the languages used in your work before 1990?

A. In our work, Albanian and Serbian were both official languages, and we communicated in both languages with our Serbian colleagues too. But after this, we weren't allowed to use our language in official ²⁰⁴⁷ writing, and in the official instructions, and our language rights were denied.

JUDGE ROBINSON: I'd like to find out whether the rule or the law which led to the loss of a job at work applied both to public and private enterprises.

MS. ROMANO: First, Your Honour, I don't know if the witness said that was --

JUDGE ROBINSON: Well, he has spoken of people being dismissed if they didn't use -- or if they used Albanian language at the railway where he worked.

MS. ROMANO: Yes.

JUDGE ROBINSON: And presuming that was a government-run railway, I'm trying to find out whether people also lost their jobs if they worked in private enterprises.

MS. ROMANO:

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, are you aware if the imposition of the Serbian language was also in private companies?

A. Yes, of course. Official documentation in private firms too had to be carried out in Serbian. For instance, firms that hitherto had names in Albanian were obliged to change their names and to write their names in Serbian and in the Cyrillic alphabet. Of course, those firms that wanted to continue trading had to apply this law, otherwise they were closed down.

MS. ROMANO: That clarifies, Your Honour?

JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. ²⁰⁴⁸

MS. ROMANO:

Q. At your work, Mr. Bucaliu, did your Albanian colleagues, did they know, all of them, did they know the Serbian language?

A. Yes. Usually they knew Serbian. The overwhelming majority of Albanians knew Serbian and were able to communicate in it.

Q. And was there any punishment for the breaching of this rule? I think you mentioned before.

A. Yes, there were cases, plenty of them. For instance, if you'd like a name of somebody who was punished, in general, all the Albanians that worked there, we were all punished at least once with a loss of 50 per cent of our earnings sometimes for three months or up to six months.

Q. Was there any colleague of yours who did not know how to speak the Serbian language?

A. No. Maybe there were some that spoke with difficulty, but we didn't have colleagues who spoke none at all.

Q. Thank you very much. Prior to the NATO bombing, were the police or the army in the Ferizaj station?

A. Yes, they were. Even before the NATO bombing, the police were there. They used to go round. Perhaps not the army, except when -- when they had a specific task at the railway station such as a military transport. Otherwise, the police used to come round.

Q. So was it usual for you to see the army or the police in the station?

A. Yes. The police often -- not often but sometimes. But it wasn't normal to see the army except in certain specific circumstances. When ²⁰⁴⁹ they had a military transport, quite simply.

Q. Do you remember any occasion where there was not a military transport but anyway you saw military people?

A. Yes, there were such cases. Especially there were officers who sometimes came to the station and consulted with the stationmaster. I don't know what about, but they did maintain ties between themselves. But this was not often.

Q. You worked at the railway station up to 1999. Why did you stop working there?

A. I worked at the railway station at Ferizaj until the 14 April 1999. Until then, I worked -- in fact, I worked until the 25th of March, 1999. But on the 25th of March, after the start of the NATO bombing, when I went to work on the following day, my boss said, "From now on, you're not going to work, but just report to your workplace but don't work." This was very strange what he said, and I said, "Why?" And he said, "It's an order from above." That's all he said. And I was surprised, to tell the truth.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, were the Albanians the only employees who were asked not to come to work any more?

A. Yes, it was only the Albanians.

Q. And were the Serbs the only employees who worked at that station after March 1999?

A. Yes. The Serbs, our colleagues who had been working there, they stayed on working at the station.

Q. Even after that time, did you come back to the railway station ²⁰⁵⁰ even after you were told not to come to work any more?

A. I would go every now and then. Not every day because it was difficult to move around, and it was dangerous to travel at that time. But nevertheless, I would report at my workplace every now and then but not every day.

Q. Thank you.

MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, the witness brought with him to The Hague the traffic log of trains from the Ferizaj railway station, and it's from the period between 1st January until 19 June 1999. I have copies. Copies have been disclosed to the accused and the amici on the 5th of March, right after the witness arrived to The Hague, and I have here more copies for the Court.

The original will be available for inspection, and the witness will be using the original throughout his testimony, but this log is part of the Ferizaj railway station documentation archive, and the witness has the duty to return it back when he returns to Kosovo.

JUDGE MAY: Ms. Romano, what is the purpose of putting this log before us?

MS. ROMANO: The witness worked at the railway station before as an on-duty signalman, and he was -- used to input the data of the trains in this log. So he's familiar with the procedures of the information.

JUDGE MAY: No. What I asked is what is the purpose? Why are you putting this into evidence?

MS. ROMANO: Because we want to -- it's part of the Prosecution to show the part -- the use of the trains and the movement of trains during ^{2051 BLANK PAGE 2052} all the deportation of Kosovo Albanians, and the frequency that --

JUDGE MAY: Well, Ms. Romano, you must take this fairly rapidly. We have been imposing time limits on the Defence, and we must also do so on the Prosecution. So you must get through this witness in chief by the adjournment.

MS. ROMANO: Yes. I intend to do so, Your Honour, and I will try to get as quick as I can with the log.

JUDGE MAY: Very well.

MS. ROMANO: I also have a draft translation from the headings.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, as part of your duties as a signalman at the railway station, you were responsible for inserting the information about the incoming and outcoming trains in a traffic log; is that correct?

A. Yes, that's right, at the time when I was working as a signalman. But this log, this is the same kind of log that was used at the time when I worked on this job, and it's the same procedure.

Q. Thank you. So if you can, taking the first and the second pages as an example, the dates the 2nd to the 4th of January, can you explain to the Court how can someone identify the passenger trains and the cargo trains in the log? Very briefly, Mr. Bucaliu.

A. The passenger trains have a four-figure number and freight trains have a five-digit number. These are regular trains that are in movement.

Q. And which column?

A. In the second column, that shows the number of the train, and you can tell whether it's a passenger or a freight train.

JUDGE KWON: Can the witness put that log on the ELMO, please. ²⁰⁵³

MS. ROMANO: Sorry, Your Honour. I didn't see that. Can the usher please put the log on the ELMO.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you briefly show again the column where the information about the trains can be found in the log.

A. Yes. Here it is. This is the second column, and here are the train numbers, and on the basis of these numbers, you can tell whether it's a passenger or a freight train.

Q. And at the same page, how can someone know the direction of the train?

A. You can tell the direction of the train on the basis of the number at the end. If it is an even number, the train is going in the direction from Han i Elezit to Fushe Kosove. If it's going from Fushe Kosove to Han i Elezit, then it's an odd number.

Q. Thank you. Can you also show to the Court the place in the log where you can identify the on-duty signalman.

A. Yes, I can show you. Here you can notice the person going off duty and here the person going on duty. There he is handing over to this other person on the other side of the log, that is, the person taking up the shift.

Q. Which number? Which column?

A. The column is not significant, because it's written along the lines. Here is the end of shift, and on the same line you have the person handing over the shift to his successor. So the column is not important, but there it is at the end of the shift. It's written each time.

Q. After the 25th of March, you told the Court that the Albanians ²⁰⁵⁴ were told not to come to work any more. Is there any record made by an Albanian on-duty signalman in the log after the 25th of March that you are aware of?

A. You can tell this on the basis of the signatures, and if the Court will allow me to illustrate this. For example, on this page we have here an Albanian handing over the shift to a Serb, who takes over from him. At this time, there were both Albanians and Serbs. And here we have the Serb handing over to the man coming after him, who is an Albanian, and so on. And then you can look at the page after, 25th of March, and you can see that there were no longer Albanians at their jobs.

Q. Thank you. Using your experience and the log as your source, prior to March 1999, how many trains usually passed through the Ferizaj railway station every day?

A. This varied. For instance, before the 1990s, there was greater traffic of both passengers and freight, but after 1990 it declined. And regular passenger trains, before March 1999, there were three in each direction, three to Fushe Kosove and three to Han i Elezit; in other words, six trains.

Q. And how many carriages did the trains usually have at that time?

A. These trains had two carriages or, very rarely, three or four.

Q. Were the number and the frequency of trains increased after the NATO bombing?

A. Yes. We can show this from the book. The number of the trains increased, and also their length.

Q. If you look, for example, at the log of the trains on the date 3rd ²⁰⁵⁵ of April, how many trains can you see at that day, Mr. Bucaliu?

JUDGE KWON: And after that, could you help me to find where Elez Han is in the map.

MS. ROMANO: The Serbian name is Djeneral Jankovic. Your Honour, it's not shown on the map that I used with the witness, but I will see if I have another one.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can we go back to the question? If you look at the trains on the date, on the 3rd of April, how many trains can you see passed through the railway station that day?

A. Yes. From 7.00 in the morning when the shift started, when this person took up his job, until 2100 hours, there were eight trains passed during the course of the day.

Q. And are you aware if the number of carriages were the same?

A. No, it wasn't the same. I can't say how many carriages there were because I wasn't there, but during the days when I was there, at that time they had a minimum of ten carriages. And there were cases when they even had 20 carriages, ten passenger coaches and ten freight cars in which passengers had been put. In other words, freight trucks full of people.

Q. And were the trains coming from Fushe Kosove, were they full?

JUDGE MAY: We haven't yet established which way the trains were going. Can you help us about the 3rd of April? Which direction were the trains going?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Of course. On the basis of the log, we can show where they were going. As I said, odd-numbered trains were going from Fushe Kosove to Han i Elezit. For instance this one, train ²⁰⁵⁶ number 37893, is a passenger train, a special one, because the "3" is in front, showing that it is a special train. So it's not a regular timetable train. But there was special traffic rules enforced beyond the timetable at this time. And this train was supposed to stop in Ferizaj but it didn't. That arrow shows that it passed through. And here's the time when it passed through.

And here's another one immediately after it.

JUDGE MAY: Just stay with the first one. Which direction was it going? Was it going towards the border or not?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, it's going in the direction of the border, in the direction of Han i Elezit, which is the border with Macedonia.

JUDGE MAY: Yes, Ms. Romano.

MS. ROMANO:

Q. And what was the reason it stopped at the railway station in Ferizaj? Can you explain what that arrow means in the log?

A. This arrow shows that the train passed through and didn't stop. Even though it was a passenger train and, according to the timetable, it should stop. However, whenever I was there, I saw that these trains were full of passengers, and I saw them going through Ferizaj and continuing to Han i Elezit crammed with passengers, and this arrow shows it didn't stop. And in other cases when the train wasn't completely full, it would stop and take on passengers at Ferizaj station.

Q. And how did they overcome the problem of the overcrowded trains, of the people who could not board at that time? ²⁰⁵⁷

A. When the train didn't stop at Ferizaj, it would happen that the stationmaster would call on the bus station for assistance and would ask for buses to carry those passengers, to carry them into the direction of Han i Elezit or other directions. I'm not sure where the buses went but no doubt they went to Han i Elezit. And there were also cases in which trucks were brought near the railway station and people got into the trucks and went in the direction of the border.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, are you aware of who was in charge of organising all this, to make it possible that trucks and buses were made available?

A. The person who asked for help was the stationmaster, Ilic, but the person who sent the buses was no doubt the director of the bus station or a firm that had trucks. Fertrans, it was called, and their trucks carried a lot of passengers.

Q. From 31st of March until 7 of May, there are some usual entries from column 42 up to the end. For example, if you take a look on information on the dates 29 and 31st of March on the log -- Mr. Bucaliu, can you go to dates 29 and 31st?

MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, in the copy, the set of copies, is the ERN number. It's K0218505, for your assistance.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, have you seen these entries before?

A. No, not these notes. I -- they were -- these kinds of notes were not used in the log previously, and you could see this by making a comparison, that these kinds of notes were not made before, but here they are. They have been made. And this shows that -- that the train traffic moved according to special rules. It wasn't a regular timetable. And ²⁰⁵⁸ this was no doubt done because these trains were escorted. In other words, you can interpret this as either military escort or police escort, and you can tell this from the notes.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you tell us what is written? I know that you understand Serbian, the Serbian language. What is written in those columns? Can you translate for us?

A. Yes. "The train is running according to the rules, with an escort from Fushe Kosove."

Q. And have you ever seen what type of escort was that?

A. Yes. I saw at this time. When I was there, I saw a number of -- an increased number of policemen on these trains that were running. I saw policemen in the trains.

Q. Can you describe the policemen? How were they dressed?

A. They wore police uniforms, regular police uniforms, as were worn by the Serbian police. It was blue, white, and a kind of brown. It was a camouflage uniform.

MS. ROMANO: May I have the witness shown Exhibit 18, I believe. Mr. Usher, I don't think I will need the log any more, the log. You can just take it.

THE REGISTRAR: The log will be numbered Prosecution Exhibit 63.

MS. ROMANO: Thank you.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you look at the photo that the usher is putting on the ELMO and can you indicate to the Court if you can identify any of the uniforms that you saw accompanying the trains?

A. These are the police uniforms that they had. ²⁰⁵⁹

Q. Can you tell us the number?

A. Number 6.

Q. Thank you. Mr. Bucaliu, where were you on the 2nd of April, 1999?

A. Excuse me. If we can go back. I would like to go on to explain that there were no more Albanians there, because -- because there were no more Albanians, if the Court is willing to accept my evidence, and then we can go on. But --

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, I think you gave this evidence already. You indicated to the Court there were no more Albanians as signalmen. I think this was already -- is already done. Thank you.

If we can move on, where were you again on the 2nd of April, 1999?

A. On the 2nd of April, 1999, I was at home, in my home village of Fshati i Vjeter.

Q. Was your village surrounded on that day?

A. Yes. Our village was surrounded in the morning, at about 8.30. Serbian army tanks entered our village and quite simply surrounded us.

MS. ROMANO: May the witness be shown Exhibit 17.

Q. Looking again at this set of photos, sir, can you just please tell the Court if you can identify the tanks that you saw on that day. You can look first on the photographs, and then if you identify one of them, you just pass it on to the usher and he will put it on the ELMO.

A. There was one of these, but there was another kind that I don't see here. Here it is. This one. So there was this one, this kind of tank.

Q. Can you tell the Court the number, please. ²⁰⁶⁰

A. Number 6 and number 1.

Q. Thank you. Did any soldier approach your house on that day?

A. If I may be allowed to have the map of my village again, I will explain to the Court where the tanks came from and where they positioned themselves.

Q. The map that you drew, Mr. Bucaliu?

A. Yes. Yes. There's no other one.

MS. ROMANO: I don't remember the exhibit number.

Q. Can you please, briefly, Mr. Bucaliu, explain from where did the tanks come.

A. The tanks came from the Ferizaj-Gjilan road, so this entrance to the village was where they came in. And there were three tanks came along this road, and there were two or three officers walking in front of the tanks, and then there was another tank went in among the fields and here stopped by the yard of my house. Out of fear that something worse might happen to us, the young people and the young men decided to leave, and my eldest son, who at that time was 15, decided to go, and my uncle, who was in my house at the time, we all decided to -- we all started to go out into the road. And meanwhile, I told my wife and daughters to remain at home. And then they came up closer --

Q. Sorry to interrupt you, but my question was: Did any soldier approach your yard or your house?

A. Yes. It was a tank that came into the yard of my house, and there were soldiers in the tank. We met the officers of this -- these army officers, and we went back and met these Serbian officers. ²⁰⁶¹

Q. And were they in uniform?

A. Yes, they were wearing uniforms.

MS. ROMANO: Can I have the witness shown the Exhibit 18, I believe.

Q. Do you recognise in these photos any of the uniforms -- or the uniform you saw that day?

A. These photographs aren't very clear, but it seems number -- photograph 9 seems the closest.

Q. Thank you. Did the soldiers tell you what they were doing there or what they wanted from you?

A. Yes. When we went back and met the officers, these Serbian soldiers, one of them introduced himself as a major, and I introduced myself and said that I am Bajram Bucaliu. And he asked me about the structure of the population in the village, and indeed the name of the village and the structure of the population, and I told him that there were Serb and Albanians. And he asked about our relations: "What are your relations like with your Serbian neighbours?" And of course, I said, "We don't have any problems. They're rather good." And he asked, "Who is the head of the village?" I didn't dare say who the head of the village was, and I said, "Our village doesn't have a head, but we have the tradition of respecting the elderly, so you can talk with one of the old men." At that moment, my father was the oldest person in the village, and I suggested that he talk with my father.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, we'll have to be more objective in the evidence here, and you have to be more precise and objective in your answers. I asked ²⁰⁶² you what did the soldiers tell you or your father what they were doing there and if they wanted anything from you or from the villagers.

A. They said, "We are the regular army and you won't have any problems from us," and that's what we thought too, but in the end it turned out differently. They told us that we should go and hand over weapons if we had weapons. We said, "Our village doesn't have weapons." There were no KLA here. And they asked us if there were any KLA here, and we said no. We had a couple of hunting rifles with licence, and we handed over these two guns.

On the next day, in the morning, they entered the houses and searched the houses thoroughly to see whether there were weapons or not, and there were no reports of any arms being found anywhere. And then they took my truck from me. It's a Mercedes, which I had left with my Serbian neighbour, with the idea that it would be safer there. And they asked me for the keys to the truck, supposedly to see what was inside, but they didn't even open the back of the truck to see what was in it but immediately got into the cabin, started up the truck, and went off in the direction of the Ferizaj-Gjilan road.

Q. Did they ever return the truck to you?

A. No. I've still not seen the truck down to the present day.

Q. Was any other property taken by the soldiers?

A. Not from me. They didn't take anything from me, but there was my truck and there was another truck, and there was a depot with a lot of agricultural equipment, and I saw them -- with my own eyes, I saw them plundering other trucks besides my own. ²⁰⁶³

Q. Was there any burning or looting?

A. There was burning on the 3rd of April in the morning.

Q. Can you describe briefly --

A. Excuse me. I'm sorry. It was the 5th of April. In the morning on the 5th of April, they burned houses. And we were surprised to see the smoke coming out. This was the house in which the Serbian soldiers had housed themselves.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu --

A. And we only saw smoke and flames.

Q. Do you know the reason? Why did they burn the houses?

A. I can't imagine any reason that they might have. There was no reason for them to burn these houses. I told you there was no KLA in our village, and quite simply, they had no reason at all to burn houses. We thought and indeed they said that this was the regular army, and we thought we wouldn't have problems from them. But it turned out differently, because on the 5th of April, they burned four houses. Uh-huh.

Q. Did they leave your village at any time?

A. Yes. At that moment, when they were burning the houses, the tanks went out onto the main Ferizaj-Gjilan road and went in the direction of Gjilan.

Q. On the 5th of April, was your village occupied again?

A. On the 5th of April, the military forces with the tanks left, but -- and we thought that probably we were safe after that. And then only these houses that were burnt and those trucks that were robbed from ^{2064 BLANK PAGE 2065} us, but that was not the case, because in the afternoon - it was around 15 hours - other forces, paramilitary Chetnik forces came.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, can you describe these forces? First, what did you see?

A. Yes, I can. It was about 4.00 p.m. when these troops had entered from another direction, from the other entrance to the village which leads to the road Prishtina-Skopje. That is where they came from. And they went from house to house.

They came to my own house. I was sitting at the stairs and then I saw --

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, I will just interrupt you. Before you go ahead, I asked you to describe. Did you see vehicles, cars? Did you see how they were dressed? Can you be more specific on the details about these forces?

A. They didn't have any vehicles with them, but they were wearing the usual army uniforms, wearing caps, the cockades, and military uniforms. And in those uniforms was -- they had insignias. It was a human skull with a cross, and on the other side it was written "SCP," which I think is Serbian Chetnik Movement. They had beards. They were unshaven, and armed with light weapons, automatic rifles and knives.

MS. ROMANO: Can I please have the witness shown Exhibit 18 again.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, again can you see if you can identify among the uniforms one that is similar to the one you saw.

A. It's not very clear, but it resembles more photo number 8. ²⁰⁶⁶

Q. Thank you. Mr. Bucaliu, were the villagers able to move freely from one place to another when these forces were in your village?

A. No, because they put their own order in the village. That is, first they informed us who they are, who they were, telling them that from then on, they were going to stay there and that the villagers, according to them, would be free to move about from 7.00 in the morning to 7.00 in the afternoon, to work their lands, to go about their business, but they wouldn't be able to leave the village without having their special permission. Only in that case could they leave the village.

Q. Were people ordered to do any type of work?

A. Yes. On the first day, they forced us to find 25 young men who were supposed to do something for them. And then on the next day at 8.00, they should report to a certain place. And a man, in this case it was my father who promised to do that, he agreed with some other villagers that they would send a person, that is a total a 25 young men who would be sent to the place where they were asked to go. My brother was one of them. He went with the group. And from the next day - it was, I think, 6th of April - they were forced to work and to dig trenches for protection, allegedly for protection against NATO airstrikes.

Q. Do you remember what happened on the 13th of April?

A. Yes. On the 13th of April, in the house of a neighbour, because we used to get together two, three families, because we thought that in this way it would feel safer. So in the house of my neighbour, Emin Zeka and his two sons were killed at about 8.00 p.m. when electricity was cut off. ²⁰⁶⁷

Q. Did you see the killings?

A. I didn't see it with my own eye, but this is what happened.

Q. How do you know that?

A. Because a neighbour came on the next day. He's the Muslim priest. And he told me -- it was about 10.00 in the morning. He came up to me and told me what happened that previous night. Emin and his two sons had got killed.

Q. Did you see the bodies yourself at any time?

A. I didn't see the bodies.

Q. When did you leave your village, Mr. Bucaliu?

A. We were forced to leave the village on the 14th of April, that is, after these murders.

Q. When you say "forced," what do you mean by that?

A. I say because so far we -- until then, all our vehicles were taken away from us. All the money was taken away. We were constantly being robbed. And we stood up, nevertheless, but when killing started, then we were not expecting anything worse than that, so we thought we had to save our lives.

Q. Did the other villagers remain in Fshati i Vjeter?

A. No. In the part of the village where I lived, only two old people remained who couldn't walk away. But when we returned, we found their bodies burned. As to the others, they all left.

Q. And where did you all go?

A. We went in the direction of Ferizaj. There was a kind of valley. We tried to run away and find shelter there, fearing we might get killed ²⁰⁶⁸ in the village. So we tried to leave in the direction of Ferizaj. And most of the village inhabitants went that way. They passed by my house where a valley is situated, and they all left in that direction. I was left behind because my mother was sick and couldn't leave with the crowd. So I was forced to stay with her in the village.

Q. Approximately how many people left at that time?

A. Approximately some 500 or 600.

Q. Did you all go to the Ferizaj railway station?

A. Yes. That night we stayed the night in Ferizaj, finding shelter wherever we could, and on the next day, we went to the train station.

Q. How crowded was the train station?

A. In my view, that day there may have been around 4.000 to 5.000 people.

Q. And how many people were in your train, the train that you boarded?

JUDGE MAY: Let him tell what happened. He hasn't mentioned the train yet.

MS. ROMANO:

Q. So what happened after you arrived at the railway station?

A. After we arrived at the train station, since I was someone who worked there, I contacted the stationmaster and asked him if a train was coming, and he said yes. And that large crowd of people kept waiting the train, which came at about half past eight, I think. It had ten carriages. There were some travellers but not very many. But in Ferizaj station, the train was crammed with people. In my view, there may have ²⁰⁶⁹ been around 2.500 people that boarded the train. The train set out in the direction of Elez Han, and we arrived in the train station of Elez Han.

Q. Do you remember seeing police on board?

A. Yes, there were policemen in the train.

Q. After you arrived in Elez Han, what happened?

A. After we arrived in Han i Elezit, we stayed in the train up until 12.00. Since I used to know the stationmaster of Han i Elezit - his name was Davidovic - I asked him, "What is going to happen with us? Why are they letting us go further?" And he told me that, "We are trying. We are talking about the Macedonian authorities to let you in, but so far we have not yet received an answer from them." Apparently they were not willing to accept us.

At about 12.00, this man, Davidovic, informed me that, "The Macedonian authorities do not want to take you in, so you have to go back." And this is what really happened. The train returned again to the Ferizaj station. We got off the train at this station in Ferizaj and we left the station and went each to our own house or wherever we could find shelter, and on the next day, we went back to the train station.

Q. And was the next train in the station full as the first one? Could you board on the next train?

A. You mean on the next day?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, we could board on the train, but not all of us. A certain number of people managed to board the train, and we did, that is, get on the train, and went again in the direction of Han i Elezit. ²⁰⁷⁰

Q. And can you describe how you crossed the border? How did you cross the border?

A. Yes. When we arrived at the train station in Han i Elezit, again I asked Davidovic, "What is going to happen to us today?" And he told me, because he already knew, that the authorities of Macedonia would accept us. And this is what happened. After five minutes of staying there, or ten minutes - I'm not sure - the train continued its journey to the border with Macedonia, which was not a normal thing to happen, because usually passenger trains shouldn't go up to the border but remain at the station. But in this case, the train went up to the border, and this happened also with our train. When they -- when the train arrived at the border, it stopped. Some Serb soldiers, with tractors and other vehicles, passed by on the road which ran parallel to the rails, and they told us to get off the train. When people saw police and soldiers, people were scared. At the moment I told them, "We should get off the train because this is what we are being told to do." And this is what we did. We got off the train, and for half an hour we were kept there, gathered at that place. After half an hour, they ordered us to walk in a line of two and get before the locomotive, in between the rails, and not try to leave the rails, because otherwise -- they told us that the ground is planted with mines. Therefore, we had to stay in between those two rails and walk along the rails. And this is what we did. We lined up by twos and walked up to the border with Macedonia.

Q. Thank you. You mentioned soldiers and policemen. Did they wear uniforms? ²⁰⁷¹

A. Yes, they did.

Q. Were the uniforms any different from the ones you pointed already, you indicated that you saw already?

A. No. They were the same uniforms.

MS. ROMANO: Can I have the witness shown Exhibit 3, map 11, please.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, this is a map that will show a similar route to the one you described during all your testimony. The names are with the Serbian version. Can you please demonstrate or indicate to the Court how was the route that you took from your village, Staro Selo, or Fshati i Vjeter, up to the border?

A. This is my village, here where I'm pointing at now, at the crossroads of the roads Prishtina-Skopje and Ferizaj-Gjilan. I said that we arrived at the train station from the village, that is, in Ferizaj train station. On the day that we left Ferizaj, it was the 16th of April, for the second time. Then by train we walked -- I mean, we drove this way, up to the border, further than the usual train station of Han i Elezit.

Q. Mr. Bucaliu, Han i Elezit, when you say, is the same name as Djeneral Jankovic, isn't it?

A. Yes, it's the same name. In Serbian it's Djeneral Jankovic.

Q. Okay. Thank you. When did you return to Kosovo, Mr. Bucaliu?

A. We returned to Kosova on 7 July of the same year, that is, 1999.

Q. And was your house in the same way as when you left?

A. No. It was burnt up, and the houses of my two brothers, who were ²⁰⁷² living close by, as I said, were burnt, along with many other houses in the village.

MS. ROMANO: Thank you. Your Honours, I don't have any further questions.

JUDGE MAY: Thank you. Mr. Bucaliu, I wonder if you could just help us with the dates of some of these events. On the 14th of April, you left the village, and the next day you got to the railway station; is that right? The 15th, that would be.

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's right.

JUDGE MAY: And then you said a train was expected, and as I understand it, it arrived at about 8.30. Was that 8.30 in the evening?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. It was in the morning.

JUDGE MAY: So would that be the 16th of April?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was on the 15th and on the 16th, because we boarded the trains twice. On the 15th, we went up to the border and came back. On the 16th, we did the same. Again we left in the morning, got off the train, and arrived at the border with Macedonia on the same day.

JUDGE MAY: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

Cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:

Q. [Interpretation] You said that until 1990 you lived together on good terms with the Serbs, that is to say, the Albanians and Serbs did, and that the situation was aggravated in 1990; is that right? ²⁰⁷³

A. The situation -- it's true, because until 1990, we were on very good terms with the Serbs, until that time. We used to invite each other to our weddings and funerals, with our Serbian neighbours, and then we would swap agricultural equipment and lend things to each other. But after 1990, these relations cooled, not with everybody, but with certain individuals, and they didn't behave in the same way as they had before.

Q. And you say that you invited each other to funerals. Do people invite each other to funerals?

A. Yes. Yes. That is normal. When a neighbour dies, the village is informed and people are invited to the funeral.

Q. So what do you say the reason is that your relations worsened in 1990?

A. The reason was, I think, quite simply, political, the politics pursued by the Serbian leadership.

There were Serbian people in Kosova who supported this policy, and this is the reason why relations deteriorated.

Q. A little while ago, you said that these were constitutional changes.

A. Yes, the constitutional changes. Them, too.

Q. And when were these constitutional changes carried out?

A. The constitutional changes were in 1989.

Q. And why were relations worsened then in 1990?

A. I think the Serbs, at the beginning, perhaps were not great followers of Serbian politics, but slowly they too started to support them, and this was the start of this chill in relations. ²⁰⁷⁴

Q. All right. All right. This start of this chill of relations in 1990. And then why were there demonstrations, the well-known demonstrations of 1981? This was nine years before that.

A. In 1979, 1980, 1981, I was at school in Slovenia, and I wasn't in Kosova at this time. But it is well-known to the public that Albanians were asking for their rights to be with -- equal with other republics in the former Yugoslavia.

Q. And in what were they not equal? In what way did they not have equal rights?

A. They were not equal in the sense that it wasn't called a Republic of Kosova, it was called a Province of Kosova.

Q. All right. But in Kosova, there are Serbs and Muslims and Croats and Romany. They all live there as well. Why are their rights not affected by that, only the rights of Albanians? Also the Gorani and Egyptians. That is to say, the rights of them all. There are several ethnic communities. Why were other rights, the rights of others not affected by this, only those of Albanians?

A. It's not true that the rights of others were not affected. The rights of others were affected just as the rights of the Albanians were.

Q. Was there a special regulation pertaining to Albanians only and not pertaining to others or was there, on the other hand, regulations that pertained to others and not Albanians in Kosovo?

A. Please, I am not involved in politics, and I am not able to give a proper consideration of this.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, the witness's evidence was that ²⁰⁷⁵ relations worsened in 1990 or in the 1990s. Now, that's the matter on which he should be cross-examined. You've chosen to try and take events back, but as he tells you, he was at school at the time. Now, the 1990s may be of relevance to this trial. Earlier events, as far as this witness is concerned, in my judgement are not relevant. So ask him about the 1990s.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] To tell you the truth, I did not intend to ask him about that at all, but I was impressed by the fact that the Prosecutor referred to constitutional changes during the testimony of Mr. Bucaliu. Previously, he had spoken about his work as a railways man. So since this issue was raised, I raised it too. Also, since he claimed that until 1990 everything was fine, of course it is connected to that. It is only logical to ask why demonstrations were staged in 1981, which is before 1990. And also why there were demonstrations when the army intervened.

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, I don't see the logic, but let us go on with what happened in 1990.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. Let us go back to 1990 when, as the witness said, relations were worsened.

Q. In 1990, what kind of rights were taken away from the Albanians?

A. I can only testify to the rights in the workplace where I worked. As I said before, we were deprived of the right to use the Albanian language as an official language in writing and in official communications in the workplace. This was one serious violation of our rights. And then such things were evident in other spheres too. I can ²⁰⁷⁶ tell the Court that on merely for one day's strike on which the Albanian workers were involved in, 130 workers were dismissed from the railways of Kosova and five of them were from Ferizaj. And the others who were not dismissed had their wages docked by 15 per cent for six months. Then between 1990 and 1999, not a single Albanian was taken on for employment in our organisation. Serbs were employed.

Q. We'll go back to this question, but the information I have here is that at your railway station, there were 28 employees out of which only six were Serbs. And you include one Romany in that figure. And all the rest were Albanians. Is that correct or not?

A. I said that the number of workers at the railway station fluctuated according to requirements. There were times when there were perhaps 28 and sometimes there were less. And sometime in the 1990s maybe it was like that but later on. But then other Serbs were employed at the station.

Q. But in 1999, there were only six Serbs at the railway station out of a total of 28 employees. All the rest were Albanians.

JUDGE MAY: He said in his evidence it was eight. Now, I don't think that much is going to turn on those two.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, I am asking him about the actual figure, because he has given a descriptive explanation as to the Albanians being deprived of their rights, et cetera. I'm asking him about the figure because there are records about this. How many Albanians were there and how many Serbs were there?

JUDGE MAY: His evidence was 17 Albanians and eight Serbs. You're ²⁰⁷⁷ putting it was six and some others. It's not going to make a great deal of difference whether it was six or eight. So let's move on.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Yes. But even if he were right, do you bear in mind the fact that at any rate, even if your figures were correct, the Albanians were the majority in your enterprise, in your company?

JUDGE MAY: Yes, that's right. That's what his evidence was, that as far as the railway station was concerned, that was the figures.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. All right. Let's go back to clarify this question of language.

Q. Are you aware that until the regulations on the use of language were adopted, Albanian employees in the public company of railways wrote tickets in the Albanian language only, regardless of whether passengers were Serbs, Albanians, Turks, Muslims, whoever? Are you aware of that?

A. I said until 1990, the Albanian language was in official use in the workplace where I worked. And after 1990, we were deprived of that right.

Q. To put it quite precisely, according to law, the languages enjoyed equal rights and enjoy equal rights until the present day, but I'm talking about the actual implementation. Is it correct that until 1990, Albanian employees wrote only in the Albanian and that they would not even issue tickets in the Serbian language to Serbian passengers?

A. This would not have been a problem because until 1990, Albanian was an official language and tickets were written in Albanian until that time. But after 1990, this was punishable. ²⁰⁷⁸

Q. It was true that Albanian was the official language until 1990 and that it remained an official language after 1990, but the order that was given was that the Serb language had to be used as well, not only the Albanian language, and especially that Serb passengers had to be issued tickets in the Serb language as well. Why did that bother you?

A. It doesn't bother me at all. You should realise that Serbian passengers had tickets written in the Serbian language.

Q. Well, that is the point. The forms for tickets, were they bilingual or monolingual?

A. I don't remember. I don't remember about the tickets, whether they were written in both, but documentation that we kept at the station was in Albanian, and the Serbs kept documentation in Serbian.

Q. So what's strange about that? Why does that bother you, the fact that Serbs did not write in Albanian?

JUDGE MAY: Can you answer that? It may be it's not going to take us any further.

A. I can answer. We weren't bothered by the fact that the Serbs wrote in Serbian. It was not a problem. But we were bothered when we were deprived of the right to use Albanian, as we were allowed until 1990. We had no trouble until then at all.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. You had no trouble because you did not use the Serb language at all; is that right or not?

JUDGE MAY: I think we've taken this as far as we can go. He's given his answers. ²⁰⁷⁹

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Nevertheless, I would like to ask him kindly, because he does remember his work quite well, to answer the following question: The forms for tickets and the papers that he worked with at the railway station, were they in two languages or in one language? I claim that they were both in Serb and in Albanian, both languages, that is, and now you answer me: Am I right or not? Because there are documents there. It's not difficult to prove it.

JUDGE MAY: Let the witness answer.

A. I said -- we're wandering around the same question. I said before, and I say again: Until the constitutional changes that took place in 1989, the Albanian and Serbian languages were used in the train station as official languages together without any problem, and after 1990, we were forced to write in Serbian, quite simply. We were not allowed to use our language.

JUDGE MAY: So the answer is that the forms for tickets and the other papers were in two languages; is that right?

THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Until 1990, they were in both languages.

JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. Let's move on.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. Does that mean that, after 1990, they were no longer in two languages, these forms?

A. Yes. After 1990, they were only in Serbian; only Serbian was in official use. ²⁰⁸⁰

Q. All right. All right. And you assert that Albanian was not in official use in 1990?

JUDGE MAY: He's given his evidence about that.

MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Q. And do you know that according to the constitution, both the Albanian and the Serb languages enjoy equal rights, are equal in Kosovo and Metohija?

A. I am not aware of the constitution in detail, but I know that in my workplace this right was denied us. So the Albanian language was not allowed in our workplace.

Q. All right. Was Albanian not allowed or was it Albanian without Serbian that was not allowed?

A. I don't understand the question.

Q. Was it allowed to use the Albanian language simultaneously with the Serbian language when it was in use?

A. After 1990, no, we were not allowed to use Albanian. That's a fact. I can prove it with books, with documents, with whatever you wish.

Q. You mean documents like these?

JUDGE MAY: No. I think we've dealt with this for long enough. The witness has given his evidence. We're going to adjourn now. Mr. Milosevic, we'll expect you to turn on to another topic tomorrow morning, not the language.

THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I wanted to ask him about whether he thinks --

JUDGE MAY: Mr. Bucaliu, would you be back, please, at half past ²⁰⁸¹ 9.00 tomorrow morning to continue your evidence.

--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.00 p.m., to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 13th day of

March, 2002, at 9.30 a.m.