Serbian Radicals' leader says he would not hand over Karadzic, Mladic
BBC Monitoring Europe (Political) - April 30, 2008 Wednesday

Text of report "We have had enough dead Serbs in The Hague" by Bosnian newspaper Dani on 25 April; subheading inserted editorially.

Interview with Serbian Radical Party deputy chairman Tomislav Nikolic by Tamara Nikcevic, in Belgrade

[Nikcevic] How long have you been campaigning?

[Nikolic] This is the third time in the past year and a half and you can calculate the rest on your own! This is too much even for normal circumstances, but Serbia is not a normal country. God only knows what else awaits Serbia. The campaign has been exceptionally exhausting; it is one of the most difficult ones and reminds me of the campaigns 15 years ago.

[Nikcevic] Why?

[Nikolic] The government has deliberately been going from one election to another. As you have seen, these elections have brought nothing. We entered this campaign completely impoverished. All the money that we had was spent during the presidential campaign, which is why it was only yesterday that we began airing spots on television.

[Nikcevic] Wait a minute! What do you mean, "impoverished?" Do you not get help from Miroslav Miskovic?

[Nikolic] Yeah, right. The help we got from him!

[Nikcevic] What are you trying to say?

[Nikolic] Of course he is not helping us. First of all, everyone is afraid to help us.

[Nikcevic] Why should they be afraid?

[Nikolic] They got this crazy Dinkic on their back. It is impossible to get any money without the knowledge of the tax authorities. And everyone knows everything in Belgrade. However, I do not deny the accusations of cooperating with Miskovic because this is what awaits me after 11 May. I have to cooperate with everyone, even Miskovic.

[Nikcevic] Cooperate as a government?

[Nikolic] Of course. You know that the radicals will come to power on 12 May. If the government from the outset develops good relations with the affluent, if they cannot get everything they want but can get a lot, then the state can function. Capitalism cannot do without the affluent.

[Nikcevic] Yes, but in your campaign, although you frequently mention tycoons, looting, and so on, you have never mentioned Miskovic. On the contrary. The only issue that President Tadic and you agreed on in the presidential election was to defend Miroslav Miskovic, with absolutely identical words.

[Nikolic] This is what Olja Beckovic also told me after her talk show. I do not defend Miskovic. However, the DS has under its control all of the media that are saying that Miskovic finances the SRS. This is a lie. Miskovic may not deny this; he may not defend himself and say something against them, because they could hang all sorts of inspections and controls around his neck.

[Nikcevic] Why should he worry about that if he operates in accordance with the law? I do not understand. What does he care about inspections?

[Nikolic] Wait a minute! He is a man who employs 25,000 people in Serbia. You can calculate on your own how many families we are talking about. Miskovic is too big for Serbia, and Serbia is preventing him from expanding. There should be reciprocity with the Slovenes and the Croats. There should be better cooperation with Russia, and Delta should be allowed to penetrate the Russian market.

[Nikcevic] You are lobbying so hard for Delta!

[Nikolic] No, but I am going to lobby for all big companies. I want to come to power and it is normal that I am interested in filling the budget. This is not about Miskovic. Why would he finance me? So I can make some business deal possible for him? I cannot do that. To provide him a good law? Well, everyone knows that I vote against every single law proposed by the government. What would be his interest in investing in Tomislav Nikolic? Because I will come to power one day? I could then say that Miskovic finances almost every political party in Serbia.

[Nikcevic] You probably would not be so much off the mark.

[Nikolic] All right, but why would he, by financing the SRS, get into a quarrel with those who are currently in power? Is he waiting for 12 May? Miskovic intensively cooperates with the DS and G17 Plus, but the easiest thing to do is put the entire blame on Tomislav Nikolic.

Deal with Kostunica

[Nikcevic] You once again mention 12 May. Are you sure that you will come to power?

[Nikolic] Absolutely!

[Nikcevic] How come? Yesterday you said that you are willing to offer Kostunica the post of prime minister?

[Nikolic] I have a big problem with journalists. They always misinterpret me.

[Nikcevic] All right, then tell me this: in case that you win the required majority, will you offer Kostunica the post of prime minister?

[Nikolic] I will tell you because I am certain that my exact words will be published. Well, Serbia must have a government, but it is impossible to have it without concessions. The same as in the presidential election, the DS and the SRS will win roughly the same number of votes. What will once again tip the scales is Kostunica's Democratic Party of Serbia [DSS]. Kostunica is waiting for a sign of the SRS or the DS. Everything is out in the open on our part, but Tadic's people send the same messages to the DSS that they had sent during the five days that I had been the head of the Serbian Assembly: "Shame on you! How can you be with the radicals?" Or they say, "Shame on you, radicals! You are willing to give everything to Kostunica!" This is their tactic! It is not like they refused to give Kostunica the post of prime minister!

[Nikcevic] But, do you not see what Tadic has done to himself and the DS by giving in to Kostunica's blackmailing?

[Nikolic] What has he done? Tadic has kept the important departments.

[Nikcevic] What are they?

[Nikolic] Defence, foreign affairs... [ellipsis as published throughout]

[Nikcevic] What about the police? Or the BIA [Security and Information Agency]?

[Nikolic] Who cares about that?

[Nikcevic] Well, Kostunica does! The most important ministries for him are the so-called "ministries of force."

[Nikolic] They matter to Tadic, too. Both are fighting for the police so they could protect their thieves. I have no such problems. I do not need the police.

[Nikcevic] How come? Your party has announced arrests!

[Nikolic] I know that there will be arrests, but I have never announced them. It is true that there have been some "hawks" in the SRS who send messages like that; when I frown at them because of that, they promise that they will not do it again. When they get carried away at rallies, they repeat this. If I get the chance, I will be willing to offer the post of police minister to one of the minority parties. This would be a historic agreement. People in the parliamentary assembly of the Council of Europe keep saying that the Serbian police are harassing the Hungarians. Well, let us have a Hungarian as police minister, and he then should say whether what they are saying is true or not. What could be a problem with that?

[Nikcevic] Mr Nikolic, you do not have a problem convincing me because I agree with you. But, how will you convince your voters? Or Kostunica for that matter?

[Nikolic] You should not worry! Kostunica and I will sit down with minority representatives and work things out. I do not insist on posts, but I insist on us being in the government. And on not outvoting each other.

[Nikcevic] Is it true that you are willing to offer to the opposition the post of assembly speaker?

[Nikolic] It is true. This would be the first time in the history of parliamentarianism that the assembly is not a maid of the government. But, never mind that now! We will see what happens on 12 May. We have a saying: "If you need to beg someone, do not make him angry." Kostunica needs just one interview to get angry. A single interview! This is why the SRS and the DSS do not attack each other in this campaign. They have no reason to attack us, but I could say a lot of things about the years when Kostunica ruled.

[Nikcevic] What would you say?

[Nikolic] He has made a huge number of poor people. I do not blame the postman for not bringing the pensions. The prime minister should be blamed. Kostunica forms bad governments, in which each minister is a prime minister in his own right. Nobody listens to anyone. When has Dinkic listened to Kostunica?

[Nikcevic] Do you notice that you once again criticize Dinkic while avoiding Kostunica?

[Nikolic] No, no. What I am trying to say is that Kostunica allowed all of this. His people voted in favour of this. He should be blamed.

[Nikcevic] What else do you hold against him?

[Nikolic] Kosovo and Metohija [Kosovo]. How long did this deviation and avoiding clashes with high European officials last? Do you think I have forgotten? There was Montenegro as well! Kostunica guaranteed that the state union would be preserved. He was assuring us that the Montenegrin referendum would not work. He financed and supported Milo Djukanovic's opponents. And - nothing! In addition to this, we have no cooperation with the Russians. Who should be blamed for that? The day after he won, Berlusconi met Putin. Kostunica seemed to be ashamed of cooperating with the Russians. I have a million other complaints.

[Nikcevic] What then makes him suitable for a new term?

[Nikolic] He failed because he did not have radicals in his government. However, at some point during the referendum campaign for a new Serbian constitution, I noticed that Kostunica had started changing all of a sudden. My appointment as assembly speaker - although it lasted just five days - has also shown that he is finally willing to cooperate with us.

[Nikcevic] But, from one election to another you get a large number of votes, yet you are willing to give the post of prime minister to a party that has a 10-per cent support, the police department to the minorities, and the assembly to the opposition. Why are you in politics in the first place?

[Nikolic] Serbia's interest comes first. Besides, the SRS does get a large number of votes, but it is never enough. We need the DSS, but without the blackmailing. We can work out a deal. For example, Kostunica could be the prime minister, and most of the ministers could be from the SRS. Or the other way around. I do not mind.

[Nikcevic] Is there another country in Europe where a party with major voter support is offering the post of prime minister to a party with incomparably less support? Please explain this!

[Nikolic] I told you that Serbia is not a normal country!

[Nikcevic] On the night when he "gave the mandate back to the people," did Kostunica ask you to join or support a DSS minority government?

[Nikolic] No.

[Nikcevic] Prior to the scheduling of the early parliamentary election, did you reach an agreement with Kostunica on a post-election coalition?

[Nikolic] No. Never! It has not existed to date. I talked to Kostunica some 10 days ago and suggested that the Serbian Assembly ratify the energy agreement with Russia because the government was unable to do so. We would have the majority in the parliament. However, as you know, the assembly speaker, a member of "the yellow" [DS], refuses to schedule a session. Under the Constitution, a disbanded assembly performs undelayable and urgent tasks.

Relations with Russia

[Nikcevic] What is so urgent about this? Sergey Lavrov said that ratification could wait until 11 May.

[Nikolic] Forget about what Lavrov says! He is a political figure - here today and gone tomorrow. Gazprom says we must do this, and they have the gas. What if the Russians get angry and go to Romania or Hungary?

[Nikcevic] These things depend on someone's anger, not on interests?

[Nikolic] It is almost all the same to Russians. This is a favour to Serbia. It means a lot to us. Lucky are those that have the pipeline going through their territory. Transit and maintenance alone are Serbia's gain.

[Nikcevic] How big a gain? Economists said that the entire arrangement and the sale of NIS [Serbian Oil Industry] were bad.

[Nikolic] I would like to discuss this with the Russians. Each day they have $600 million in extra profit that they put in the state reserve. Thus, it would be foolish to haggle over this. We need to discuss this openly. I am a Russophile, but I would never allow anyone to accuse me of selling Serbia because of my love for the Russians. I would never allow that.

[Nikcevic] All right. What happened to this session that you mentioned?

[Nikolic] Dulic refused to convene it so I called Kostunica and told him that the assembly was not the speaker, but the 126 deputies. We are the majority. If Dulic refuses to do so, the session may be convened by one of the deputy speakers.

[Nikcevic] Did you decide this or is it what the assembly's rules of procedure say?

[Nikolic] The rules of procedure say that the speaker convenes the session, but what if he dies?

[Nikcevic] As far as I know, he is not dead! He is alive!

[Nikolic] He is alive, but he does not want to convene the session!

[Nikcevic] So you take the law into your own hands? That is a fine recommendation!

[Nikolic] This is not a violation of law! Convening a session is a formality.

[Nikcevic] It is not up to you to say what is and what is not a formality. You can do that, but you should be aware that this would be a very bad signal.

[Nikolic] I cannot reason with you! The majority will make the decision, and let the Constitutional Court decide on the procedure.

[Nikcevic] By the time the Constitutional Court meets...

[Nikolic] This is Tadic's court, so let them overturn the decision. Tadic has already overturned it. When in his presidential campaign he needed a meeting with Putin, he went to Russia and personally attended the signing of the agreement. Later on I had trouble explaining to Kremlin that, by inviting Tadic, they were blowing wind in the sails of a candidate who was seen as pro-Western. I told them, "You want me to fight against the influence of the United States, NATO, and Russia [as published] in Serbia, but you help my opponent? I will not do it! With this you are pushing Serbia into the hands of the NATO Alliance. Be my guest!" They then invited me to come to Moscow and suggested that I be received in the Duma. As this was the presidential election, I refused. In the end I was received by Medvedev, who soon became the Russian president. Thus, Tadic used the agreement for his campaign, but he now refuses to vote for its ratification. Well, we cannot have that!

[Nikcevic] What do you mean? What will you do?

[Nikolic] Mrkonjic of the Socialist Party of Serbia [SPS] has the authority to convene a session. Let us see what they are going to do. If Dulic does not want to do it... I have always respected the will of the majority. You remember that, on the night when I was the assembly speaker, I allowed - although I did not have to - the Kostunica-Tadic government to be formed as this was the will of the majority?

[Nikcevic] I remember it. It is true. Has Kostunica replied to you?

[Nikolic] Yes. He said in some interview that the agreement must be ratified before 11 May... And here is another thing! In 1997 Zoran Djindjic was the speaker of the Belgrade Assembly, and he had the power to convene sessions. SPO and SPS deputies filed a motion to dismiss him; Djindjic did not convene a session. After the session was held, however, he accepted the decision of the majority and stepped down. Djindjic was a great politician who knew that he should accept the will of the majority.

[Nikcevic] I find it hard to believe you said this!

[Nikolic] Why?

[Nikcevic] Because, for example, during the Serbian presidential campaign you said that, in case you won, you would take a look at the Special Court's verdict against members of the Zemun clan for the murder of Zoran Djindjic. This was interpreted as an announcement of a possible pardon.

[Nikolic] Duties of the president of the republic also include pardons. During the campaign TV B92 asked me whether I as the Serbian president would pardon Zoran Djindjic's murderers. No one in his right mind would ask me that. I replied that I would never pardon this kind of perpetrators, and in other cases I would have to review the facts.

[Nikcevic] Do you mean to say that your statement was misinterpreted?

[Nikolic] Yes. Zoran Djindjic did not deserve to be killed, and I would never pardon his murderer or shorten his sentence by one day. I also would never do that for multiple murderers, repeat murderers, drug dealers, rapists, and so on. I do not know what is odd about that. Zoran Djindjic and I were political opponents. He was involved in some criminal affairs, but he had a strong political nerve. He was a master in everything in DOS [Democratic Opposition of Serbia]. DOS without him is nothing. Only he could have gathered that kind of people in one place. But, please do not put that as the headline.

Seselj phone calls

[Nikcevic] I will not. You said that you had not agreed on a post-election coalition with Kostunica. Has Vojislav Seselj done this, as was alleged by Defence Minister Sutanovac?

[Nikolic] Not as far as I know.

[Nikcevic] And what do you not know?

[Nikolic] Those who eavesdrop know. How does Sutanovac know that Seselj and Kostunica talked? Did Sutanovac eavesdrop on them? Or was it Ranko Tadic?

[Nikcevic] Who is Ranko Tadic?

[Nikolic] Tadic's cousin who eavesdrops on everyone in Serbia.

[Nikcevic] What do you mean, a "cousin" is eavesdropping? Being a cousin is his function?

[Nikolic] You should ask Tadic. This guy comes from Montenegro and eavesdrops on everyone for his little cousin. I demand that Sutanovac gives us a transcript of this conversation. What kind of a state is this if the defence minister says that he knows what two people talked about on the telephone?

[Nikcevic] Could you forget about Sutanovac for a moment and tell me how it is possible for the head of the party to be negotiating behind his deputy's back?

[Nikolic] This is not true.

[Nikcevic] Did you ask Seselj?

[Nikolic] No, because I have not talked to him for seven to eight days now.

[Nikcevic] Why?

[Nikolic] Because Seselj usually calls around 1900 hrs [1800 hrs gmt], and I am almost always busy around that time - I speak at some rally. Besides, how could he talk about anything behind my back? He is the party's chairman and he may do what he wants. It seems unrealistic to me that a man whose telephone conversations are heard by half of Europe is now forming coalitions and the prime minister goes for that. The only suggestion I got from Seselj was not to be too harsh on Kostunica.

[Nikcevic] You know that I insist on getting an answer because you first said at a press conference that Kostunica would no longer be the prime minister, but then, one week later, you dramatically mitigated that stance. It does not matter. Is Seselj satisfied with the campaign? Does he agree with what you say?

[Nikolic] We have talked to each other twice since the campaign started. I told him the slogans, how I would run the campaign, and so on. He agreed and suggested that both us be put on the campaign poster.

[Nikcevic] You do not mind?

[Nikolic] Why should I mind?

[Nikcevic] Because, for example, he is in The Hague.

[Nikolic] This is irrelevant. I know that he is innocent.

[Nikcevic] All right. That remains to be seen.

[Nikolic] What remains to be seen? We should wait for the verdict? Well, we cannot have that! According to the verdict, Haradinaj is also innocent. So is Naser Oric, although, of the 2,600 murders established to have been carried out under his command, he was found guilty of nine and sentenced to just two years. This is a disgrace! Do not tell me about justice in The Hague!

Karadzic and Mladic not in Serbia

[Nikcevic] What are you trying to say? If you come to power, will you cooperate with the Hague tribunal?

[Nikolic] Cooperate in what matters? I will help for the first time the defence of those who are kept there. As for Karadzic and Mladic, they are not in Serbia.

[Nikcevic] How do you know?

[Nikolic] Tadic and Kostunica told me. They have been chasing them for seven years.

[Nikcevic] You heard what Prosecutor Vukcevic and Rasim Ljajic said?

[Nikolic] I do not want to talk about them. They are sell-outs. Rasim Ljajic was with Kostunica for seven years, and now he is with Tadic. What should I think about him?

[Nikcevic] What does that mean? You used to be close to Milosevic, now you are close to Kostunica. What kind of an argument is that?

[Nikolic] We have not double-crossed anyone ideologically. Ljajic has! It does not matter to him who is who as long as he is the minister.

[Nikcevic] All right, all right! It was not Ljajic who arrested General Tolimir in Belgrade, put a bag on his head and took him to the RS [Serb Republic], and then ordered them [the RS] to deliver him to the Hague tribunal and lied about it to the people in Serbia.

[Nikolic] That is correct. I have witnesses. Someone will have to be held to account for that.

[Nikcevic] What do you mean, "someone?" Who?

[Nikolic] The BIA.

[Nikcevic] Who is Rade Bulatovic's boss?

[Nikolic] You very well know this. Kostunica is the boss!

[Nikcevic] So you will form the government with the man whom you caught lying?

[Nikolic] Tamara, whatever you say will not talk me out of this.

[Nikcevic] I am not trying to talk you out of it. I am only asking how you can trust this man. Not to mention that he, despite the deal you made, dismissed you as assembly speaker after just five days.

[Nikolic] That is not good enough! Do I have an alternative? I am not going with Tadic, Dinkic, Djelic, and others similar to them?

[Nikcevic] You have not answered my question: if you come to power, will you arrest the Hague tribunal indictees?

[Nikolic] How can I do that if they are not here?

[Nikcevic] What if you were to find out that Mladic was in Serbia?

[Nikolic] You are saying if he were to return to Serbia now? Well, he cannot do that! How will he enter Serbia? Who is going to let him in?

[Nikcevic] Well, you and the SRS! You used to say that the parliament was a safe house for Ratko Mladic!

[Nikolic] It was not me.

[Nikcevic] Aleksandar Vucic, the secretary general of your party, did say that!

[Nikolic] But, it was not me! Never mind. No one will ever again be handed over to the Hague tribunal because none of them are in Serbia.

[Nikcevic] If they were in Serbia, would you hand them over to the Hague tribunal?

[Nikolic] No! This is what you want to hear? I would deliver no one else! We have had enough dead Serbs in The Hague.

[Nikcevic] Thank you. That is the answer.

[Nikolic] The Hague tribunal is an invented court, and Serbs will no longer go there. Vojislav Seselj will probably be convicted of an invented act - joint criminal enterprise. Joint enterprise with whom? Generals Kadijevic and Adzic, whom he had never met? But, the Hague tribunal does not find this important. They did not need to meet and talk, but if they had the same idea, this is immediately treated as a joint criminal enterprise. Perhaps you and I, as we talk and look at each other, get some joint idea...

[Nikcevic] You do not have to worry about that! I am sure that the two of us do not and will never have any kind of a joint idea on anything!

[Nikolic] Easy! You never know.

[Nikcevic] Once again on your lapel you have a button with Seselj's image. You had taken it off during the presidential campaign.

[Nikolic] I put it back. Perhaps Seselj at the start did not understand why I had taken it off, but then I explained it to him. "How can someone in the DSS vote for me if I wear your button? I am fighting to become the president of all citizens."

[Nikcevic] Does Seselj trust you? Is he a stone around your neck today?

[Nikolic] Oh, no! Rest assured that I am going to sigh with relief when he returns from The Hague. The two of us have always been ideologically close, but we also have always been different in our approach. At this hour it is my style that prevails. When Seselj led the party, it was a horrible time in Serbia. If I had been saying then what I am saying now, many would have probably said, "What is the matter with him? Grab your guns and go to war!

[Nikcevic] Although you say that this is another time, do you get the impression that people are still afraid of you? They are afraid that you might take them to war again.

[Nikolic] This is not true! They are not afraid. This fear is being spread deliberately. The DS is in a panic because all of the young people vote for us. These children are defiant and proud. They are fed up with everything.

[Nikcevic] Besides, these children do not have passports; they have never seen anything else.

Relations with Europe

[Nikolic] Where should they go?

[Nikcevic] What do you mean, "Where should they go?" Do your children travel anywhere?

[Nikolic] No!

[Nikcevic] They have never been out of Serbia? They do not have passports?

[Nikolic] They do. This summer they will probably go to Greece. And then what? Their eyes will open there? Tadic promises them Europe, passports, visas, but they still vote for us. Do you know why? Because they know they will get there sooner with us.

[Nikcevic] Where will they get with you?

[Nikolic] To Europe.

[Nikcevic] To Europe with you? Are you sure?

[Nikolic] Of course. For these children, a trip to Europe means having money to travel and being able to afford what they need. Tadic talks about the EU, but these children know what Europe has been doing here for the past eight years - it has been deciding on life and death. What can this child hope for? His father does not work, and neither does his mother.

[Nikcevic] Whose fault is that?

[Nikolic] It is the fault of those who have been in power in the past eight years - the DS and the DSS. If either of them wants to change and take Serbia to the future, I can hardly wait.

[Nikcevic] What is this future like?

[Nikolic] Serbia is already in Europe; it is solely up to Europe as to what direction our cooperation will take. If they respect Serbia's territorial integrity, we then do not have a problem. If not, we are going to cooperate only with the countries that have not recognized the independence of Kosovo and Metohija. Besides, Russia is Serbia's strategic partner.

[Nikcevic] Should Serbia be offered on 28 April to sign the Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU...?

[Nikolic] Tadic is begging Europe to offer him the signing. You saw that the Dutch nearly accepted. Belgium is left.

[Nikcevic] And you threaten that you would arrest President Tadic at the Belgrade airport should he sign the agreement. Who are you to arrest Serbia's president?

[Nikolic] I did not say it like that. The media once again misinterpreted me. I said that the Constitution obliges the president of the republic to respect the country's integrity. Kosovo and Metohija is an integral part of Serbia. I said that Tadic had to respect the Constitution, but journalists wrote that I would arrest him.

[Nikcevic] If Serbia fails to sign this agreement, does it mean that Kosovo will remain a part of it? Does the rejection of the agreement mean that the EU will annul the decision to recognize Kosovo, or that Serbia will lose both Kosovo and the EU?

[Nikolic] For us, it means that we do not recognize the unilaterally declared independence of Kosovo and Metohija. This is a dispute of sorts with those who recognize Kosovo.

[Nikcevic] How far are you willing to go to protect Serbia's territorial integrity?

[Nikolic] We will help each citizen who wants to stay in Kosovo. We must guarantee their safety. That is why Kfor [Kosovo Force] and UNMIK [United Nations Mission in Kosovo] are there. Should EULEX [European Union Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo] appear, so will Serbia.

[Nikcevic] How?

[Nikolic] One thousand soldiers and police officers are going to Kosovo. The EU says that it respects the UN Security Council's Resolution 1244. If the EU respects it, it then must know that the resolution creates the possibility of 1,000 Serbian soldiers and police officers going to Kosovo. We will see what the UN secretary general says about that. Does he respect the document adopted by the organization he is heading or does he recognize EULEX? We will be the first government to demand that the resolution is respected and implemented. Everyone shunned that. I am not afraid of anyone.

[Nikcevic] You said that you would not wage war.

[Nikolic] I said that I would not wage war, but I did not say that I would not defend myself. I do not want to inflict harm on my people.

[Nikcevic] I hope that you will not inflict it on others, either.

[Nikolic] Of course not. And who are these "other peoples?" Hungarians, Slovaks, Romanians, Rusins, Albanians, Muslims, Monetengrins... All of them are my people. But, should I come under attack, I have to defend myself.

[Nikcevic] Who is attacking you?

[Nikolic] No one, but we must have an army. Why does France need an army? Who is going to attack France? It is in the EU, but it still has an army. Serbia wants to have a small and efficient army. If you have an army, you might wage war one day.

[Nikcevic] Now what does that mean?

[Nikolic] What does it mean to a Frenchman? If someone attacks you, you have to wage war.

Serb Republic needs more autonomy

[Nikcevic] What about the RS? In what way would you cooperate with Bosnia-Hercegovina?

[Nikolic] The RS has its own path, but, unfortunately, this path is not good right now. They do not have a politician who could take the RS in the proper direction.

[Nikcevic] What direction is that?

[Nikolic] Autonomy.

[Nikcevic] Why?

[Nikolic] It is impossible for it to stay in a federation where it is constantly being outvoted and humiliated. Milorad Dodik portrays himself as a man who will protect Serb interests. Despite that, since the signing of the Dayton peace accords until today, the RS powers have slowly been disappearing, one by one. The RS is being reduced to something that is even smaller than a province. This is not moral. Politicians in the RS either did not have the ability or the strength to resist any of the high representatives because they thought they could end up in prison.

[Nikcevic] Why in prison?

[Nikolic] For example, Nikola Poplasen was the RS president, but the high representative dismissed him. He did not resist because he was afraid of ending up in The Hague. This is tyranny, occupation!

[Nikcevic] What would be your advice to them?

[Nikolic] To give nothing else and to get ready for a referendum.

[Nikcevic] Do you think that they will listen to you?

[Nikolic] It is up to them to decide how to proceed. I do not interfere in that. It is my part to say that I think that Dodik will not go in that direction, although he is trying to appear that he will. He is the only politician whom Europe allows to go much further than others, but only verbally.

[Nikcevic] Why do they allow him?

[Nikolic] Well, they need him. He portrays himself as a patriot, he wins a huge number of votes, but the RS is nowhere to be seen.

[Nikcevic] At the DS election rallies in Serbia Dodik said that one of his successes was that the SRS did not exist in the RS.

[Nikolic] Yes, and his other message was, "I also want you to destroy the SRS in Serbia." But they failed to destroy me both the first and the second time around. That is why Dodik will not appear in Tadic's campaign now. He has realized that he made a mistake.

[Nikcevic] How do you know? He told you this during the rally [against Kosovo's independence] in Belgrade?

[Nikolic] No, but he fretted on the stage over what my reaction would be. He was not at all comfortable because he had previously spoken against the SRS and me. He now knew that this was essentially a radical rally and that everything depended on me. Inspired by that rally, he went to the RS and held and excellent speech there.

[Nikcevic] You say that the largest number of people at that rally were members of your party?

[Nikolic] Yes, but they were not in front of the US Embassy. The government was there. A badly organized government. Later on I read in the papers, "We fulfilled the wish of embassy staff not to protect their building." What does that mean? Had we been in power, do you think that as much as one window would have been broken on any of the embassies?

[Nikcevic] I do not know.

[Nikolic] Of course not. We would have protected the office of any foreign state in Belgrade. No exceptions!

[Nikcevic] What you are saying is wonderful, but this idyll is spoiled by the fact that people simply have a different perception. Saturdays I go to the Palilula marketplace, and the peasant from whom I buy potatoes and carrots told me one morning, when he heard my accent: "All of you Montenegrins will be expelled when Toma [Tomislav] comes to power." Later on he, of course, was sorry that he had said that, but he could not help himself. President Tadic has nothing to do with this. This is your voter.

[Nikolic] This is not the rule. I am ashamed of such comments, but you have to understand the people. They were shaken by the separation from Montenegro. It is the same when brothers separate.

[Nikcevic] Why should I understand this? Your two sons do not live in the same house either. Am I right?

[Nikolic] Yes, but we always remain as one. This is not the right comparison. We should not have separated, period!

[Nikcevic] After everything you said; after your openness and willingness to cooperate with the minorities, the opposition parties, and others; is there a chance - should you come to power - of you becoming "the Serb Sanader?"

[Nikolic] I sincerely want this and can do it. I will do this if I get the opportunity. Sanader, however, had both a mitigating and an aggravating circumstance. The former was that he was accepted in advance, but Europe is tripping me up at every turn although it knows what kind of person I am...

[Nikcevic] What kind of person are you?

[Nikolic] I am a man who is going completely to change, and who is going to reconcile, Serbia. Europe does not want to admit this. They have turned Sanader into this, although he is not like that. Imagine if Javier Solana were to say tomorrow that the EU had nothing against Tomislav Nikolic winning the election! The SRS would get many votes of those who are now afraid of us... Sanader's aggravating circumstance is that he has not enabled the Serbs to return to Croatia. All descriptions of him as a democrat do not hold water when it comes to this issue. He may go to Serbs' houses to attend their festivities as much as he likes, but when you ask him how many of them returned, how many of them got their property back, how many of them were beaten up... This is where the entire story crumbles. I would do things differently.

Source: Dani, Sarajevo, in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian 25 Apr 08 pp 16-19,48-50
Posted for Fair Use only.