INTERVIEWS WITH RADOVAN KARADZIC
Various Sources - Compiled July 22, 2008

With the news of Radovan Karadzic's arrest a lot of untruths are being reported in the media. He is accused of being a genocidal butcher out to exterminate the Bosnian Muslim ethnic group. If you want a real understanding of who Radovan Karadzic was and what he stood for then you should read what the man had to say for himself. In that vein here is a collection of interviews spanning Karadzic's political career.

INTERVIEW WITH RADOVAN KARADZIC; Bosnian Serb leader speaks about Dayton, postwar situation
BBC Summary of World Broadcasts - May 17, 1996, Friday

SOURCE: Source: Bosnian Serb television, Pale, in Serbo-Croat 1840 gmt 13 May 96

[1] Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic has called on the international community to recognize the Bosnian Serbs'right to regulate and supervise the movements of Bosnian civilians. Speaking about recent attempts by displaced Muslims to visit their former homes on Bosnian Serb territory, he said the Bosnian Serbs would not allow such " attempts to destabilize" the Serb-Muslim demarcation line. Karadzic said that the military aspect of the Dayton Agreement had been implemented on the ground, and the international community should be grateful instead of "bad-mouthing" commanders such as Ratko Mladic for this. He said that the "crisis" lay in the interpretation of the agreement rather than in its implementation. Karadzic denied reports of a rift between himself and Mladic, adding that "certain misunderstandings in the past" occurred because of the unsatisfactory work of their aides. He spoke about his privatization plans, which would be based on the Czech model, and the need to avoid having a large bureaucracy. The following are excerpts from a phone-in with Karadzic, broadcast live by Bosnian Serb TV (Pale) on 13th May; subheadings editorially inserted:

Studio presenter Drago Vukovic Dear viewers and listeners of Serb radio and TV, good evening. This is the programme "Ask the President" ... Until 2200 hours 2000 gmt you will be able to communicate with the president of the Bosnian Serb Republic, Dr Radovan Karadzic, in the programme "Ask the President" .

Mr President, welcome to our studio.

Karadzic I am glad to be here.

Vukovic With this programme we are resuming, tonight, a specific means of communication between the president and the people. Unfortunately, this channel of communication was cut short last autumn after the NATO air strikes and the destruction of our transmitters. It used to be a custom and an established routine. How would you comment on this revival of our system?

Karadzic Since then we have been in the studio several times, but we went to each studio separately. I also had to carry video cassettes with me and there was no direct communication with the audience.

Of course, it was very sad because they had cut us in shreds. I am overjoyed the TV has revived and that we can be seen throughout the Serb Republic and also in other Serb lands. I congratulate you on this. I think you have risen from the ashes again.

A major force hit us. But the transmissions have resumed and I hope both the technical quality and the other one will continue to rise.

Implementation of the Dayton Agreement

Vukovic ... Allow me in this programme to raise several groups of questions - from the topical ones to the elections and some basic issues concerning the fate of the nation and the state, in other words our perseverance and survival.

The current issues are the following: there is a crisis in the implementation of the Dayton Agreement; the Serb Republic existed before Dayton; it was recognized in Dayton. And now we are confronted with some surprising situations, to say the least.

The Muslim state and religious leaders are again advocating a unitary Bosnia and war; Elisabeth Rehn UN human rights rapporteur is advocating Dayton 2; Trnka Kasim Trnka, Bosnian ambassador in Zagreb says if there is no federation another war will break out, this time probably between Muslims and Croats.

Mr President, how do you assess the situation, and what affect could it have on the Serb Republic?

Karadzic You all know that we were not satisfied with the Dayton Agreement. But we were firm and determined in our decision to implement it. I am not sure that the assessment, often heard in the international community, about Dayton being in jeopardy, is correct. First of all, the military paper which was of vital importance for the peace has been implemented in full. I want to say that in the international community they are trying to create the illusion that it was implemented against our wish, by some force.

We are too strong a military power for the existing number of foreign troops. If we had not wanted it to be implemented - both the state and military leadership and our army commands headed by Mladic - that agreement would not have been implemented.

They would not have succeeded in imposing upon some Serbs as heard something the leadership and the people opposed. So, the military paper Dayton Agreement was consistently implemented on the ground, with the absolute consent of the state leadership, political players and the army commands led by the headquarters and General Mladic.

And all accusations against the leadership and Mladic are not valid because nothing could have been implemented without us and without Mladic. In other words, the international community should be grateful instead of bad-mouthing our commanders. It should be grateful to our commanders that they managed, in spite of the agreement being unfavourable to us, to get these papers implemented.

As far as the civilian aspect is concerned, I believe that the crisis is not in the implementation of the agreement. The crisis is in the interpretation of the Dayton Agreement. We are committed to the implementation of the Dayton Agreement. But the Dayton Agreement. Dayton, yes, but less than Dayton - no.

But certain players are trying to change Dayton to our detriment. Just as they changed the map between Dayton and Paris, that is Ohio and Washington, the US Defence Department. In the transfer of the map from the 1 to 600,000 scale to the 1 to 50,000 scale they stole from us many kilometres, they took some roads. They changed, for example, the picture in Dobrinja, in place of the situation on the ground, which must remain if the international community does not intend to continue losing face. They have significantly changed the map. In the same way that they changed the map they are trying to change the sense of Dayton in the civilian sector.

Of course it is a great risk for the international community. Because it again is choosing frustration over cooperation with the Serbs.

Again, they cannot count upon some amenable Serbs. I cannot change the policy. The policy is determined by the assembly and the people with their support, in a plebiscite and in elections. When one policy is adopted it must be implemented. My duty as the head of the executive power and the state is to oversee the work of the government and all other institutions so that they do not change that policy.

That is why their hopes that they will find amenable Serbs are in vain. It would be better if the Dayton Agreement were strictly implemented. We have agreed with Holbrooke and international mediators before Geneva and before New York that Bosnia-Hercegovina is made up of two entities, above which is a very thin roof.

That very thin roof is the minister of foreign affairs. All the rest is within the authority of the entities.

Everything else is within the jurisdiction of the entities. Therefore, it is only the mission in the United Nations that is single; even our embassies do not have to be single - we can choose to have embassies of the Belgian type, with one department for the Serbs, i.e. the Bosnian Serb Republic, and another for the federation of Bosnia-Hercegovina , if the third department for the Croats does not emerge, as they probably will not accept seeing their identity denied in that federation.

Of course, a lot of confusion has been caused by some of our officials who, for the lack of political skill, have been making some soft statements. Mr Carl Bildt the international coordinator and others then gain the conviction that the Dayton Agreement may be changed. They have even publicly said that the Serb Republic should not exist, that Bosnia should be reintegrated, everyone is talking about the reintegration of Bosnia, although they are aware that we have 500 years of experience and 500 years of conflict behind us.

They are now working on the separation of the Palestinians and Israelis in the Middle East, as they have understood that they cannot live within the same political system, while in Bosnia they are trying to put us into a melting pot, as if we were born yesterday. Neither the Serbs nor the Croats, who actually make up a Christian majority in Bosnia, can accept being melted; in this context my opinion is that the international community must return to Dayton. If it returns to Dayton, then it will not be in crisis.

Calls for a unitary Bosnia; the international community

Vukovic ... Mr President, you have mentioned some dilemmas. What is the relationship between the conduct of the international community and some new or maybe old ideas on urging a unitary Bosnia. Is this conduct linked to Izetbegovic's urging a single Bosnia and Bosnia-Hercegovina the warning by Reis ul-Ulema, leader of the Islamic community in Bosnia about a single Bosnia?

Karadzic I believe there is a connection. Of course, the Muslim motive for speaking about a unitary Bosnia is their hope that they will win over the Serbs and Croats and that the whole of Bosnia will be theirs. The international community has a different motive. Those forces in the international community that wish NATO to stay here for good - they need tension here for good, i.e. they need a situation that can always be used for igniting a crisis in order to justify the existence of NATO and its presence here.

I think it would be more honest to sit down at the table and talk with NATO, with Russia and other interested parties. If that is the price and if that is necessary, then we can strike a deal. The international community does not need to try to keep tensions here all the time. I believe that nobody in the world wishes to see a Muslim state here. That is a problem both for us and for the Croats. They would like to put us together to neutralize the Muslims. However, we do not wish to waste our life on the neutralization Serbo-Croat: neutralizacija of the Muslims. We have our path and our life, I guess the Croats also do.

Muslims must understand that if they are a factor of instability in the Balkans and Europe, they will lose their allies, which they have already begun to do. Of course, there are forces in the world, particularly in Germany and in some parts of ministries of foreign affairs, which created the Dayton Agreement in order to stop the war because of the internal political situation in their countries, but which are also trying, in the wake of Dayton, to thwart the implementation of the Dayton Agreement, using political and maybe even military actions, or to bring about a new conference which would be less favourable, i.e. which would again lead towards war and tensions.

Vukovic If a fresh war breaks out what in your opinion will be the attitude of the international community in this new war?

Karadzic I believe Europe would find itself in great difficulties as its interests are not identical. NATO would face huge difficulties as its partners do not think the same, and they do not share the same interests. I believe that, unless some other disputes between Serbia and Croatia, i.e. between Serbs and Croats in former Bosnia arise, Muslims would suffer the worst. Of course, I do not think that we shall interfere in the Muslim-Croat war, that is out of the question. We do not rejoice in their instability, we are calling on them to be stable, we are calling on the international community to stabilize them or to help them to separate peacefully; thus three entities would emerge, as was envisaged in the Lisbon agreement.

If they start fighting, that would thrust the whole region into a crisis. We do not want to take part in that war, we shall only defend ourselves if attacked. However, I think that the Muslims should not desire to be armed. Whoever is arming the Muslims is not their friend . The Muslims are still a small island in Europe. They are positioned between two strong nations, Serbs and Croats, and whoever gives them a weapon is actually bringing them to ruin.

Therefore, I think that the international community, as there are no reasonable forces in the Muslim nation, would have to be aware that if it wants to drive the Muslims out of Europe and the Balkans, they should not use us, the Serbs. We do not wish to do that. We shall not fight. We only wish to defend ourselves, and by this defend European values and European Christian culture. To fight in a religious war is completely out of the question.

Problems of Serb refugees

Vukovic ... We have a listener from Prijedor on the line. Good evening.

Q Good evening... My question to the president is why can't a mother who has lost her son secure for herself or her husband, a war invalid, any benefit here in Prijedor municipality?...

Karadzic I think that your question is very valuable since it can serve as an example to other people with similar problems. First of all, it is the task of the state and state organs to regulate all this. Unfortunately, the exodus of Serbs from Sarajevo has confused us slightly. However, in Pale, in Serb Sarajevo, offices are being opened by exiled authorities of Ilijas, Vogosca, part of Ilidza is still ours, and Novo Sarajevo. Hadzici and Centar municipalities will also open their offices here and this will enable our citizens to realize their rights by contacting these offices.

When it comes to refugees, I must say that I am very cross. I recently issued a 12-point decree which I did not forward to the media but which I sent to all relevant addresses in our municipalities. I am very displeased and I think that we have made mistakes when it comes to our refugees. Unbelievable and totally unnecessary things have been happening. For instance, it is said that a refugee cannot be given an identification card otherwise he or she would lose their refugee status. A refugee is the citizen of the Serb Republic with the right to identification papers - Minister for Refugees and Displaced Persons Vladusic has explained all this - and must not lose his or her refugee status. He is both a citizen of the Serb Republic and a refugee. In other words, the refugees must be assertive, must pursue and know their rights and insist on them.

We are also displeased with the pace of the implementation of the law on refugees and abandoned property and over the next few days I shall personally visit some municipalities. I think that some municipal officials will have to be sacked, mostly from the secretariats for property, legal and local issues, in other words our land registry office will have to replace those who are concealing the details or are not being helpful vis a vis the ministry for refugees. Believe me, what is happening is a sin against these people. This is mostly happening in big towns, Banja Luka, Prijedor, Bijeljina, and the problem lies most likely with an insignificant clerk somewhere in an office. Presidents of municipalities, of executive committees, of the party Karadzic's ruling Serb Democratic Party, SDS and of the ministry for refugees have shown good will to help but, as usual, it is always a small piece of paper that creates obstacles and that holds us back. We said that we wanted each refugee to sow something somewhere, and this has happened to some extent but I must admit that some examples have alarmed us.

Vukovic Excuse me, most of the questions so far deal with the problems of the refugees, and I would like to begin with a question from a Miroslav of Doboj, who greets you and hopes for an SDS victory in the elections. His question is: will the boundary line on Mt Ozren be shifted? There is the map.

Karadzic No, the border on Ozren will not be shifted. This is not a map of the Serb Republic, these are the maps of our priorities in reconstruction. No, especially not to our detriment. We rejected all the proposals for changing the border in Prisade near Doboj since it would bring it too near the town, and Doboj is a town that succeeded in defending itself and no-one has the right to do anything that would be damaging to it. Of course, we are not satisfied with the size of the Ozren given to us but nevertheless we have been given land of good quality where the people will be able to live. The area includes some mines, hot water springs, fresh water springs and - and this is most important for us - at least one Serb monastery of the three on Ozren...

Relations with Mladic, other Bosnian Serb leaders

Vukovic We have a viewer on the line again. He is from Sabac, from western Serbia. Good evening.

Q Good evening. Milenko Ignjatovic from Sabac. I would like to congratulate you on the re-establishment of Bosnian Serb TV... As you may expect, we in Serbia hear information about there being rifts within the leadership. We wish there to be no divisions between President Karadzic and Mladic. This implies that we would like, along with the information we now hear and the appearance of President Karadzic, to see General Mladic occasionally as well...

Karadzic Thank you very much for your greetings. I can give you good news. There are no conflicts between me and Mladic. Certain misunderstandings in the past did not take place because of him or me, but because of our aides, who may not have been doing their work as they should have. But all this did not have a deep or fundamental meaning.

Relations are excellent now. As far as the rest of the leadership is concerned, we know exactly who does what in the leadership. Within the leadership, especially the team which has been together since the beginning, there is not even the slightest hint of division.

Finally, there is our assembly. And everything we are doing we put before our people. The people know exactly who is doing what.

Thank you for your good wishes. You may rest assured that the attempt of the international community to cause divisions will not succeed. I wish to remind you and the other viewers of the international community's assessment that a new leadership cannot be formed quickly - and I am not the only one to lead this country - there are some 400, 500 distinguished people, including deputies, members of the main committee, members of the municipal committees and distinguished individuals. Consequently, neither can a new leadership be formed to defeat this leadership, nor can a new party be formed.

They could then choose to try and find a more amenable line within the SDS or characterize a part of the leadership as hardliners. And then they could say, the SDS must be transformed, moderates must come to the fore and only then can the SDS remain in power. All this, of course, is in vain. Our leadership is moderate.

Our people, our supporters criticize us for being too moderate. Ours is the only party in former Yugoslavia, from Djevdjelija Macedonia to Triglav Slovenia which has not split and will not split. One or two people could drop out but the party is on the whole democratic and that is why it has not collapsed.

International community's ties with Serb leaders

Vukovic You have mentioned the international community...

Representatives of the international community are here, in an internationally recognized state, but they do not communicate with the leadership. How is this possible?

Karadzic You see, it is not individuals they object to, but the positions these individuals defend.

They put pressure on President Martic former leader of Serb Krajina and threatened him until Krajina collapsed Croat offensive in August 1995 when Krajina reverted to Croatia . Now they do not even mention President Martic, our dear compatriot and a great martyr of the Serb people, an individual with very high moral qualities to whom we all owe a great deal. They the international community put pressure on General Mladic until the military paper was implemented. Of course, Mladic did not take the decisions he did because of the pressure but because that was what we wanted.

They have not mentioned him so much lately. Now, their biggest obstacle is Karadzic. Why? Because they want to change the Dayton Agreement and destroy, annul the Serb Republic.

If I started making deals with them and accepted, then we could perhaps even receive the Nobel Prize. We know how the Nobel Prize is won - you betray your own people and are then transformed from a criminal to a Nobel prize winner.

But this couldn't be further from our mind and we could not do it, not out of moral consideration - of course, moral consideration exists - but our people are not politically illiterate. If we took one wrong step, our people would say: What is the matter with you? Until yesterday you were normal. Sorry, but you have to leave your posts.

Sometimes some of our people do say something without thinking. Then we get hundreds of phone calls. People ask: What is the matter with so and so - is he changing policy with your knowledge or is it his arbitrary decision?

So, we are not leading the people. We are following the people and their aspirations. And those who think that they could strike a deal with some more amenable Serbs would not succeed because the people would renounce them.

In fact, there are no more-or-less amenable and hardline Serbs. We are doing what we have to do and not something which is a product of our meekness or hardline positions. Being meek or hard may describe the political positions or psychological characteristics of a stubborn people. We are not stubborn. We know what we can and what we cannot apply.

Vukovic Mr President, a group of questions deals with the problems of fighters - problems ranging from their status and their jobs to recognition of their service during the war. There were promises that the years they spent fighting in the war would be recognized as double the years spent in employment . But they say the PIO Pensions and Invalids' Benefit Department does not approve of this. Could you give an answer to all these questions?

Karadzic The fighters are slowly being demobilized and it is our duty and obligation to enable them to find work as soon as possible. We even proposed that those who had been working previously, and were in fact in a privileged position compared with those in the trenches, could maybe go on some kind of vacation, so the fighters could get jobs immediately where they had been employed before.

There is also the problem of employment of fighters in municipalities from which they fled. Their status must be equal to the domestic fighters and domestic population. There are many problems and we will be very strict with the communities and municipalities which discriminate between citizens who are from that municipality and the ones who have fled their municipalities.

The fighters themselves have not been asking for special rights. It is an exceptional attitude. They simply say: Put me back in my factory and do not worry about me. Of course, I am not sure that the fighters would like double years of service because retirement is an unfair and unpleasant affair, especially in countries with market economies. But we can discuss this as well, if need be.

What the fighters want is work, their jobs. Families of dead fighters and the disabled want complete security for welfare. As far as other fighters are concerned, it is through privatization that we shall reward all those to whom we owe pay. We have had comments directed at our system of payment - we owe many months' back-pay to our fighters. The Prijedor fighters of the 43rd and 45th Brigade proposed issuing a bond which would be called Serbi ancient name for Serbs and which would be worth several months' back-pay.

We are going to use something similar. At present and in its draft stage, our privatization plans envisage 15 per cent of all our assets going to the Fighters'Fund. It will then be decided who was a deserter and who was in the trenches and who among them deserves how much.

Vukovic Yes, these solutions must be institutionalized.

Karadzic Yes, absolutely. But instead of the state being involved in this let the fighters themselves resolve it. They will easily know what to do. It is important to stress here - although this is a good opportunity to say something about privatization for which we are very -

Vukovic interrupts I suggest we talk about this later.

Karadzic As far as the fighters' security is concerned, they will be exceptionally well provided for financially. Our target is that all fighters should receive substantial assets and that they should be economically productive, leave poverty behind and enrich themselves.

Fall of northwestern Bosnia

Vukovic Here is one very specific question. The president said on many occasions that western Krajina northwestern Bosnia had fallen due to a military failure. If this is so, can the president explain to us which one of the 2nd Krajina Corps officers is responsible for it? Where is the 2nd Krajina Corps commander, seeing that he bears the greatest responsibility?

Karadzic It is true that we were attacked by a huge force then. The balance of strength - from the point of view of both personnel and firepower - was completely disproportionate. We were exhausted after a year and a half of sanctions imposed by Serbia and three and a half years of the international community's sanctions. We used to produce all types of ammunition during the war, but we were running out of large-calibre ammunition because we were under the sanctions. These reasons can to a large extent explain our loss.

It would not be good for me to say whose responsibility it was without a court's judgment. A court is the only body authorized to say whose responsibility it was, and only after a valid verdict. As far as I know an investigation has been launched, I ordered it to be launched, and the General Staff is carrying out another investigation . It has all been passed on to the military prosecution, or rather, the military court which is independent of the General Staff and all other bodies. I think work on this is continuing. Some people have been detained. For moral reasons we did not want to and could not intervene on anyone's behalf, although there are indications that many of them are not guilty. But it is up to the court to decide. We have no evidence of treason. We have evidence, or rather indications, that there was lack of competence, there was exhaustion and a huge imbalance of strength. In any event, it is best for the court to pronounce itself on this.

Vukovic Here is a question about intellectuals by Biljana from Prijedor. Where does the president see us, intellectuals who have been loyal to the Serb Republic, in the future?

Karadzic In the Serb Republic. If we find ourselves short of anything it will be intellectuals. We see intellectuals of all kinds as the moving force behind the economic and cultural development of our country. We are convinced that peace belongs to them and that they will find full satisfaction in having stayed in the Serb Republic and in contributing to its revival. Nothing can be done without the elite, without intellectuals...

Provision for families of war dead

Vukovic Here is Olivera Dragovic from Bijeljina on the line. Good evening, Olivera.

Q Good evening... I just wanted to greet our President Karadzic and congratulate him on his perseverance in the face of all the trials of this war... I am a dead soldier's widow, and I just wanted to greet our president and congratulate him on his perseverance... I would like to ask him whether adequate accommodation will be provided for the families of dead soldiers, since we are refugees...

Karadzic Thank you very much, although your question is not unimportant at all. We all owe a huge debt to the families of dead soldiers. We will carry out a speedy privatization of business premises and some other facilities which will provide permanent accommodation for the families of dead soldiers. A permanent source of financing for the families of dead soldiers will be set up to tide us over until the whole process of privatization is over, which I hope will be this summer. Of course, we will have to struggle with a small group of profiteers who have appropriated spacious business premises, but they account for less than one percentage point of the population. Other people will be grateful to us when that is over.

Let me return your compliments: I have to say again, as I have done on many occasions, that women - with their exceptional instinct for defending the nest, the people and the people's tradition - are our staunchest and most stable followers and their support - together with the support of our people in the diaspora who can tell good from bad because they have lived in the democratic world for a long time and the support of the church - are the three important sources of support on which we base our optimism about our country.

Privatization based on the Czech model

Vukovic You mentioned privatization. All these problems concerning the people's status and future can be resolved only at the level of the state. Six years ago you said the following in an interview: In order to preserve its ideological virginity the former Yugoslavia remained the economic spinster in Europe. Could that happen to us? Probably not.

Karadzic I would like to repeat that phrase: Ideological virginity and economic spinsterhood indeed was the fate of the postwar Yugoslavia. You know that before the war Yugoslavia was economically developed, or rather, it was moving in the direction of a rather restrictive monetary system. The dinar had quite a high value. Had we continued in that direction, had there been no communist revolution, Yugoslavia would nowadays be among the happy countries.

That could not happen to us because our people are committed to changes. These people will never again vote for communism or social ownership or a system which does not provide security for private property. Our people are private farmers by blood. The Serbs were not favourably disposed to Bolshevism. Farmers all over Serbia, Sumadija region in Serbia , Hercegovina and Bosnia had to be arrested, beaten up, and sometimes even killed, in order to be forced to join the collectives. These people are not inclined towards communism. The Serb people are well-disposed to their traditions, to private ownership and making money. Each Serb is a kind of little king. I used to say that when I flew over former Bosnia in a helicopter, Serb villages were distinguishable from other villages. Each farmer is in the middle of his farm, he is a little king in that farm, which he enlarges and strengthens. I think that over the past four years our people have moved away from socialism or communism, and they want to be what the Serb people and Serb society used to be - people who are well-off and who love their state and pay their taxes, which must be low in order to be paid...

Vukovic Let us return to questions concerning privatization. Professor Projic greets you and has this question for you: When will privatization happen in the Serb republic, what are its aims and which model will be used?

Karadzic In some aspects privatization will most likely happen very quickly. A law on business premises is at the draft stage. Many organizations, the League of Communists, the Socialist Alliance, this and that federation, had the use of premises, in those days socially-owned but now state owned, for next to nothing, with no charge. We were advised that the SDS should take over the League of Communists property, but we said no. Their property belonged to the people and should be returned to the people. The SDS will have to pay rent just like any other party or will have to buy property if it can afford it.

Privatization in this sphere will happen very quickly. Shares will be issued to families of dead soldiers and to certain categories of invalids. As early as the following month these shares will yield income for these people.

As for privatization in general, it is designed to make our economy more efficient, to do away with state and social ownership as very inefficient categories, to join the international division of labour and trends of the international market economy. It will be based mainly on the Czech model. Today the stock exchanges in the Czech Republic operate with between 17 and 18 billion dollars. We have just reached an agreement with the KPMG Barents group of Washington which was involved in the process of privatization in the Czech Republic. The director of our privatization agency, Professor Milojevic, has spent some time in the Czech Republic on a study visit and a law is being prepared It has already been submitted for discussion.

The gist of all this is that we hope to carry out privatization, i.e. ownership transformation, by distributing at least one third, about 33 per cent, to everyone, to all citizens. War veterans will be additionally entitled to an extra share of state-owned property for being veterans. We also owe pensioners back payment for their pensions. We must boost the pension fund. There will be a special fund to boost the birth rate, in other words we must help women to bear children without becoming poor. Furthermore there will be a fund for the resettlement of the population; we must strengthen our outer municipalities, Kljuc, Ribnik, Sipovo, Mrkonjic Grad. Within the last few days we have given instructions to deliver cattle to the area, to give cattle from reserves to peasants so that they can repay their debts to the state in the form of calves, etc. From this fund, which will amount to about 5 per cent of state-owned property, we must help the outer areas including Ljubinje, Berkovici, Nevesinje, Kalinovik, Han Pijesak, what's left of Bosanska Krupa, Sanski Most, Novi Grad Bosanski Novi in the south, and Mrkonjic Grad, Sipovo, Kljuc and Ribnik must be boosted demographically. For instance, in these areas we shall use the fund to cut taxes or give people financial help so that can buy factories and land. We have already done something about this by using these funds. Like any other state, we must have a demographic policy and must strengthen the threatened areas...

Election prospects

Vukovic A lot of viewers'questions, in addition to these which are being put to you directly, are in connection with the future, with what will happen. Therefore, I must ask you the following: thousands of lives have been built into the foundations of this state. A political struggle embodied in the SDS, which saved the Serbs from giving up their identity and which enabled the Serbs to survive, has also been built into the foundations of our state. What can happen in these elections? Can we count on preserving what has been created?

Karadzic I believe that the people will know how to vote. Of course, there will be attempts to manipulate Muslim votes. However, Mr Izetbegovic may lose elections in the federation if his people vote for municipalities from which they come, because Abdic, Durakovic, Silajdzic and many others are hard on his heels.

On the other hand there will be attempts to rig the elections with the votes of refugees. However, if the Serb people know what they want and if they vote for those forces that will most certainly continue to preserve this level of statehood, and even increase its current level - continue to secure the survival of the Serb Republic - then we will win over two thirds of the vote and will be able to guarantee our people the continuation of a policy which will lead towards strengthening the statehood of the Serb Republic, further improving relations between Serb states and possible all-Serb unification.

I believe there is no danger from any sort of propaganda. The more propaganda, the more changes thought - you know that before the last elections there was Yutel independent Yugoslav TV station not affiliated to any national state of the former Yugoslavia and how our people reacted to Yutel. It has been announced that Mr Bildt now wishes to set up his television. People will know what Bitel presumably Bildt's future TV station is, what is true, because Yutel brought the Serbs to their senses then. We are not afraid of any information or propaganda. You know that our viewers are allowed to watch all TV stations whose signal can be picked up in this area. We have not jammed a single broadcast. It is important for us to be able to tell our people what we are working towards and what our programme is.

Tax plans, "value-for-money" state

Vukovic ... We have another caller on the line. Your question please.

Q Good evening. This is Milanovic speaking from Banja Luka. Greetings to you in the studio and the president. My question relates to the tax system which, I believe, is still very unstable in our republic. It is true that the republic is young and in the process of being formed. But my direct question is: Why were soldiers who took part in our defensive war not given the chance to convert into public debt the bills they were sent recently in connection with small business debts, as was the case with pensions, military salaries etc as heard ...

Karadzic I think this suggestion is interesting. I want to tell you what our commitments are with regard to taxes. The war did, of course, cost us a lot of money. I cannot say how much it cost. And this is why we have to retain taxes at 24 per cent, say, on turnover, whilst taxes on profits are a little lower, because on the whole no profits were made.

We aim to further reduce all taxes to below 20 per cent and even bring them down to 12 per cent. In order to achieve this, we have to remain a value for money state. We cannot afford to have a large bureaucracy. We can achieve this because even now we do not have a big bureaucracy, and this is despite the fact that the state administration is not equipped sufficiently. It should have computers and everything should be automated, so that we do not have to take on more workers for administrative tasks.

Thereafter we can move towards gradually reducing taxes so that we are very attractive to the whole of Europe, and if you like, we want to be something like Cyprus or Hong Kong, so that we can do business with the whole world, especially Serbia. Our parliament approved a proposal I made which called for citizens of Serbia to be allowed to apply for citizenship of the Bosnian Serb Republic, with the aim being to promote joint ventures.

As regards taxes on soldiers who have private businesses, I believe that we should examine whether some other kind of solution can be found. Everyone, of course, should pay taxes but these taxes should be acceptably low and, of course, there should be penalties for those who refuse to pay, as is the case throughout the world.

If taxes are acceptably low no-one will evade them. People want to sleep peacefully and pay their dues to their state. But if the state at every turn resorts to raising taxes, the people and business people are quite happy to cheat such a state. This is a words indistinct circle which has to be stopped somewhere.

This means that the state, especially now when it does not have an expensive administration, must introduce low taxes and high penalties, so that the functioning of the state is secured and help is given to industry, because big taxes are bad for the economy and the state. They say a state collapses in two cases: where no taxes are paid at all, or where taxes are constantly raised. In both these cases the state goes into self-destruct mode.

Brcko

Vukovic ... Milos Jeftic from Brcko asks: Does the president believe that there has been too much gambling over Brcko. Could more have been done?

Karadzic If you are talking about military actions, it is difficult for me to talk about this now. There were various decisions and tasks . If policy is the issue, our policy regarding Brcko was not a gamble . We were clear on this. Many people tell me - and the Banja Luka intellectuals' forum write letters to me, etc - that something should be done. It is not the case that we are not doing anything. We are. Our foreign minister, Mr Buha, has had detailed preparatory discussions with experts and people who are dealing with this. We have an office in Brcko and people who are preparing historical documents, etc.

However, what is important is that agreement should be reached on what it is that is in dispute. If arbitration goes ahead without defining what the parameters of the dispute are, we know what arbitration will bring. We shall have big problems here. We do not believe in the international community. We will be getting arbitration which even a first-year law student would not tolerate. This is scandalous arbitration.

We do not believe in the international community. We first want to establish what is in dispute. According to the rules, the subject of a dispute can only be one thing; it cannot be two things. For us what is in dispute is one area, as set out in the Dayton Agreement, part of the (?inter-ethnic) border in the Brcko zone. The town of Brcko and the six kilometre zone are not in dispute as far as we are concerned, and we will never accept that this is in dispute. So we are quite clear on this.

There will not be any arbitration if someone tries to contest the town of Brcko or our line of communication between the eastern and western part of the Serb Republic . Gorazde has a five kilometre-wide line of communication linking it with its home territory. Brcko stands in the middle of two halves of the Serb Republic, one in the east, one in the west. Naturally, things could not end peacefully if someone were to try to cut our communications here...

Employment of Serb war veterans

Vukovic We have a viewer from Prijedor on the line. Good evening.

Q Good evening... My question is: My husband was on the front from the very beginning of the war. His work organization is in the Serb Republic, but he has not yet been employed...

Karadzic Thank you very much. I think it is a shame for that work organization which was most probably semi-operational during the war. Now it should let people who were working during the war rest a little and give employment to the fighters. Unfortunately, there are a small number of extremely irresponsible company directors who have not yet initiated production even though they could. We shall have to examine that, although many of them are hiding behind other political parties - no director has been or will be replaced because of his political affiliation, but rather because of his attitude to work, particularly towards war veterans, as this amounts to some sort of political manipulation. I do not know which is the work organization in question, but they must look after their workers who spent the war in trenches.

Exchange of territory

Vukovic Here is one question, Mr President, which seems to be important. From a Drago from Prnjavor: Is there any chance of western parts of the Serb Republic, such as Bosanski Petrovac, Drvar and Glamoc, being returned by political means, since they were seized from us during the implementation of the Dayton Agreement?

Karadzic We offered them Croats some Croat areas in exchange for some Serb areas. We fought a lot for Drvar and Bosanski Petrovac, we wanted to have them back, not the whole of the municipality, but at least the town and its vicinity. Sometimes our chances seemed to be quite good. This does not seem to be a completely resolved situation. Of course, we do not wish to wage a war.

Five great powers signed the Dayton Agreement. These five powers now have to be very watchful lest Izetbegovic manipulates and rejects this agreement. That would be a shameful situation for the great powers. But if it becomes politically possible, I believe some changes can be carried out.

Croats do not wish to live in Serb areas. They cannot settle in Glamoc, Drvar. Bosanski Petrovac is in Muslim hands. Significant changes of the map are possible - we hope - by political means, since in my opinion the Balkan crisis is not yet completely over.

International community dangerous when united

Vukovic Many people are asking about the forthcoming Bosnian elections. Before you hear their questions, I want to ask you whether the international community wants to be in control of the elections for technical reasons or is it a part of their policy towards the territory of former Bosnia-Hercegovina and Yugoslavia?

Karadzic They should not be in control of the elections. They should monitor the elections and respect the will of the voters, our constitution and our laws as well as our electoral commissions. Naturally, they will try to manipulate the elections. The fact that they inserted an illegal provision in the Dayton Agreement according to which those indicted by the international war crimes tribunal in The Hague cannot stand in the elections shows that the international community does not respect democracy.

If they believe that our leadership is extreme and that it leads people against their will, let the people decide about our results in the elections. Democracy either exists or it does not. Democracy cannot exist if any restrictions are being imposed on it.

My experience throughout this period is that the international community cares only about its own interests. The best thing for us is when their interests are not the same. The international community is very dangerous when it is united and dominated by one power; there is no mercy and they will do anything to achieve their goals even if an entire nation has to be destroyed.

Someone has said that the Bible mentions many nations which have disappeared. It is not paranoia or a myth to think that a nation can disappear. The Serb nation has to fight because it is on the German road to the east. Important Islamic and Catholic interests also meet here. Had it not been for our survival, for the survival of the Serb Republic - unfortunately the self-proclaimed Republic of Serb Krajina in Croatia has been lost militarily for the time being - Serbia would have ended up with indefensible borders. Can you imagine a Serbia surrounded by a hostile Hungary to the north, a hostile Albania to the south, a hostile Croatia and Muslim Bosnia to the west? Bulgaria can also be hostile when headed by certain leaders; I am not speaking about the Bulgarian people, I am speaking about government interests. Romania is probably the only one state which has no territorial aspirations towards Serbia.

Such a Serbia could not survive and we are sure that we have defended Serbia, Montenegro, i.e. the whole Serbdom, just as much as we have defended the Serb Republic during our struggle.

Refugees

Vukovic We must let our viewers ask questions again. Good evening.

Q Good evening. My greetings to the president. I am a refugee from Serb Sarajevo. I shall be brief. There are people who have lost nothing but nevertheless been allowed to move into other people's property. When will they be moved out and those who lost everything be given at least a single room?

Karadzic Well, unfortunately, your question is very topical. This problem should have been solved by mid March. There is a law, there are provisions to regulate this particular problem. There was an earlier law on the efficient use of residential property, but nothing was done. There is someone somewhere who is not doing his job properly.

I must say that state administration is our weakest point. State administration has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy matters at the decision-making level. Once decisions and laws are passed, state administration must ensure that they are implemented without exception or delay. Of course, we are very short of people with administrative skills but what is even more important is that we lack the necessary mentality. We have been through self-management, socialism, where everything was possible. In a democracy and in present-day societies there is no self-management. There is a new way of management and to attain that level we shall have to work hard.

Still, the refugees are a problem in which I am personally involved, and I think that the Ministry of Internal Affairs will have to dispatch special teams since it seems that local forces are not capable of removing the people you mentioned because of family ties, friendship, etc. This is to some extent understandable but cannot be justified. On the other hand, in some administration departments, in some municipalities, despite the good will of the people in charge, some bureaucrats are withholding documents and have not been very helpful to the minister for refugees and his municipal offices. I hope that this problem will be solved very quickly and in a favourable way...

Vukovic When you mention openness, I must remind you of one of the ideas you came up with quite a while ago, when you said that had cameras been present at meetings of the ruling party earlier, then it would not have ruled beyond the fifties, but unfortunately they came on the scene late. How do you assess the openness of the ruling party' s work?

Karadzic Well, you know Serbs do not tolerate secrets, and the state authorities and party authorities no longer have secrets. People do ask, and we sometimes have to reveal things which we ought to have passed over in silence. I believe that on the whole everything is known. But the party is huge - a mass party - and in such circumstances it is not possible to keep anything secret.

POWs

Vukovic And this programme is proof that there is no problem as regards openness. We have someone on the line from Banja Luka. Good evening. Hello?

Q I would like to say hello to the president and ask him to answer the following question: When will the fate of people who disappeared on the front be known? I am thinking in particular of the Srbobran Serb name for Donji Vakuf front, but also, of course, of other fronts.

Karadzic We are making enormous efforts and in particular we support the association of families who have missing relatives, or rather POWs. We cannot say that they are missing, because we know that there are still a lot of Serbs alive in Croat and Muslim prisons . We have some witnesses and evidence to confirm this. I believe this is scandalous for the international community.

We, for our part, have done everything to respect the Dayton Agreement as regards the release of POWs. The international community put pressure on us to release 10 or 12 people, for whom we have proof that they are war criminals, and we asked to hand this evidence over to the Hague tribunal. However, the international community simply does not mention the problem of the numerous Serbs - perhaps over 1,200 Serbs - who are languishing in prison.

I do not understand why the Muslims and Croats are holding these people. This is immoral and inhuman, and ultimately it is a violation of the Dayton Agreement. I also fail to understand the international community which is so unscrupulously biased that it no longer even mentions the question of releasing people.

We will persist in our efforts. Capt Bulajic, chairman of the state commission for refugees , and all others are working on this. Speaker Krajisnik is making special efforts. He is always in contact with the opposing side and the international community, and he has been insisting on their release and has succeeded in winning the release of many POWs - from Vijenac, Lisac phonetic and other places.

This is a concern for the whole of our community and the whole of our state. Unfortunately, we cannot do much. It would have been a mistake for us to hold a number of POWs, because then the international community would have said we were to blame for our people not being released.

We, for our part, have done everything. We have released some but we have not pardoned them. We cannot pardon them. For us they remain guilty and responsible. But we handed them over to the international community only and exclusively with the aim of obtaining our people. We have got some back, of course. However, there is a large number whose release we have not obtained. In our meetings with all sides we never give up demanding that this issue be resolved.

Vukovic And we should, of course, never refrain from demanding that this be resolved.

Karadzic We should never give up. As I said, this fact that Serbs are still being held prisoner is scandalous for the whole international community.

Vukovic We have a viewer on the phone from Brcko. Good evening.

Q Good evening.

Vukovic Your question please.

Q This is Ivan Teodorovic from Brcko... I have two questions for you. You once promised to divide up the forests amongst the people. This evening you are promising that you will give away parts of factories words indistinct . Please tell me why, seven months after the end of the war, the factory in Brcko has not begun work...

Karadzic Thank you very much. Firstly, as regards privatization, we shall implement this because we believe that unless there is privatization there can be no progress and no recovery. Of course, we have seen that many countries have made catastrophic mistakes in relation to privatization. For this reason we have not rushed into this. It is easy to make mistakes and difficult to rectify them.

We are committed to models which produce good results in the world, and as part of this I believe that land, flats and business premises will be the first things to be privatized. This will be followed by enterprises and tourism as heard and afterwards smaller businesses, and finally larger enterprises. Naturally, this is a huge undertaking and it will take time to achieve.

The question of forests can be resolved in two ways. They can either be privatized and given away piecemeal, or shares can be issued and people can take part in managing them... Forests will probably be dealt with later because at present we are using the forests to feed the people as heard .

As regards factories, I do not know if you are right as regards Brcko, but you are partially right: Many directors have preserved our enterprises excellently during the war, and we are thankful to them for that. We have never asked them what party they belonged to. That was of no interest to us.

However, many are now delaying the start-up of manufacturing. Many cannot do so for objective reasons: The sanctions have been lifted but both we and Yugoslavia are not open to foreign capital, and it is not easy for us to raise loans. We are slowly increasing production on the basis of our own strength and resources. The banking system is in a crisis situation. There is little money about. Therefore, many are really unable to start manufacturing.

However, a lot depends on personalities. If the director is dynamic he can do a lot. We believe that we are making a mistake over the age of directors. They do not have to be 60. Directors are very good, ambitious and competent when they are 30 or 35. I believe we should not fear introducing new blood into management structures. We will very quickly see who is really concerned about his enterprise, soldiers, workers and production, and who is not. We may have to replace all of them. If we replace people in the political arena, we must be able to bring new blood into the economy too.

Freedom of movement

Vukovic We still have to answer an interesting group of questions dealing with freedom of movement and manipulation linked with this. Brane from Vraca Sarajevo suburb wants to know who has allowed the Sarajevo Muslims to pass through Vraca and what is behind all this Muslim manipulation with freedom of movement and their people?

Karadzic Well, no-one has had to allow it. Freedom of movement exists in Europe as well but that does not mean that there are no regulations or supervision. We demand that the international community recognizes our right to regulate the movements of Bosnian civilians and supervise them. We have witnessed acts of Bosnian Muslim terrorism and the whole world has experienced similar problems with Muslim terrorism. We have already arrested terrorists, even on Mt Trebevic near Sarajevo .

We also have a budget. It is also in the interest of the Muslim-Croat federation to prevent smuggling. We have our budget, they have their budget. The flow of goods in Bosnia should be free but regulated. Taxes must be paid, etc.

As far as manipulations with these crowds of Muslim people trying to enter the Serb Republic are concerned, the international community can see for itself that freedom of movement is not an issue in this case. It is an attempt to destabilize the Serb-Muslim demarcation line and the border between the entities. We will not allow this to happen, i.e. our people are against this and they have organized themselves to prevent Muslim incursions . Our police have also tried to restore order...

Regionalization

Vukovic ... There is a question I have to ask you - about regionalization, or, as you call it, tribal divisions. Even the international community encourages such an approach. To what degree can this jeopardize our state?

Karadzic You see, Yugoslavia was destroyed through the Alpe Adria organization organization of central European countries, including Slovenia and Croatia . Does anyone mention Alpe Adria nowadays? Or the regionalization of Europe - nobody mentions it any more. It was an instrument aimed at destroying other states.

Now they are trying to provoke antagonism between the western and eastern part of Serb Republic , between certain parts of the eastern or western part. The people have to be clear about this - only united can we survive.

We have had support for this at rallies and in referendums, and we shall not allow certain local princes to destroy the state.

The destruction of every Serb state to date began with the rebellion of local princes and their increasing arrogance. Their tiny psychological, political or financial personal interest threatened the interest of the whole.

We shall always stand before the people and say: This person is doing this or that. Do you want him to lead the state, do you want emotions, rivalries, jealousy, psychology to lead the state, or do you want the state to be led by a rational force which takes into account both the interests of the parts and of the whole.

I think we enjoy the full support of the people against regionalism. There are some extremely immature people in our political life. There are people who are not up to their task. There are people who could say: Let us close a university, let us move the capital here, let us do this or that, without considering the consequences at all.

Of course, we shall have to say farewell to many people from our political life - we cannot afford immaturity, we do not have the right to jeopardize the state because there is no resitting the exam.

You see how Krajina Serb-held Krajina in Croatia was divided. Krajina was divided at the regional level as well. Western Slavonia was divided in one way, Knin Krajina in another, eastern Slavonia in yet another, the interior minister was once even beaten up in eastern Slavonia and President Martic former leader of Krajina Serbs in Croatia was disobeyed in eastern Slavonia and you know what happened .

So we shall not allow - changes thought we do not believe that we have to be like King Dusan Serbian mediaeval king , but we shall not be weaklings, either. Whoever counts on that can leave his political position and go to some other party and try to present himself to the people as a benefactor.

We have the mandate to preserve the state and the people and we shall take all measures envisaged by law to do so.

Of course, so far we have not had to resort to legal measures because the people are very strong, and their support for us is very strong.. .

Vukovic You mentioned failings, and there were many questions about problems, and they are all about the insufficiently-built state structure. There is something untypical nowadays: People from the world, and it seems to me a number of local people, are trying to destroy with weaknesses what we have created.

Karadzic Yes, the attitude of some people is very careless towards this infant who started to walk but is not yet completely safe because our surroundings are terribly hostile.

The best medicine is open and public action. The people must be confronted and told: What this man is saying means this and leads there. We should ask the people whether they really want to go towards ruin or want to have a strong stable state based on law, respect for obligations and responsibilities, or whether they want to gamble with their state through socialist self-management, brotherhood and unity, false values and other phrases which could lead us irretrievably to ruin.

We do not know when or how we can bring back the Serb Krajina former Serb-held territory in Croatia but we know how to preserve the Serb Republic and ensure its survival and that of its people.

There are no higher reasons than state reasons. We shall really preserve the state, relying on the people and their support...

Infrastructural development

Vukovic ... I would also like you to comment on the maps and what is important with regard to the maps.

Karadzic Well, we have a map on the screen. What I would like to comment on is what we have been doing over the past few days in our negotiations with the parties. We have set some priorities for those who want to cooperate with us. Our basic priority is the development of the whole infrastructure in the eastern and in the western part.

Now, you see. Yes you can see it better now. You see here that we have planned above all to build a railway line from Bijeljina via Brcko to Milosevci. At this point we link up with this railway line points to line leading from Croatia . I believe that we should build a railway line from word indistinct to Brod, but that is a long-term plan.

We also intend to build a motorway through Posavina northeastern Bosnia , as far as Banja Luka, and it would then be possible to extend it to Prijedor and Novi Grad Serb name for Bosanski Novi and make the link with European countries, even if this has to be via Croatia.

We are already digging and working on the road and the railway line, and we also intend to lay a gas pipeline. Our first aim is to build a 24 km stretch of gas pipeline from Zvornik to Bijeljina, because we have a concentration of industry here which would be able to produce things very cheaply if we had cheap Russian gas. Afterwards we also want to extend this gas pipeline via Brcko, Modrica, Derventa, Doboj to Banja Luka and Prijedor and beyond - but at least to Prijedor for the time being.

For example, if you could manufacture Selpak products paper handkerchiefs and suchlike using Russian gas, production would be effected very cheaply - and this is not to mention the whole Banja Luka industrial complex. Access to Russian gas would have a great impact on the economy of Banja Luka, Doboj, Derventa, Modrica etc.

Apart from this, optic fibre cables should be laid - digging has already begun - from Sarajevo right through the country to enhance telecommunications.

Here you see the Brod oil refinery. It is linked to the Adriatic oil pipeline. Since we have already started digging, we intend to set up a pipeline so that we have one terminal at least in Banja Luka, one in Bijeljina and further terminals in Serbia so that the oil does not have to travel by tanker. Instead, the tankers collect the oil from the terminals.

In this eastern part, our priority is to develop this part here Karadzic points to the road to Banja Luka in the western part of the Serb Republic . We will accomplish this by work drives, special actions by the whole economy and the whole nation - and we will give concessions to foreigners who want to build and exploit the road and railway.

Vukovic Excuse me, we have had contacts with foreigners, some firms from Switzerland and the USA. To what extent can these projects be supported from outside?

Karadzic Well, they can be supported from outside. For example, the most recent refineries were very interesting. We have resources which can be exploited here. For example, a motorway from Modrica to Bijeljina - we want to see it extended at least as far as Banja Luka and on to Prijedor - could bring big profits to someone who develops it. By the same token they could exploit any railways they might construct. They are showing significant interest, for example, in leasing oil refineries. They could exploit the roads even if this were only a motorway running in one direction with three lanes. They could also make money out of all the filling stations, all the repair workshops, restaurants, and motels etc. A motorway would generate profits for anyone who put money into it.

Karadzic Here, it is our ambition later to repair the road and gas pipeline to Sarajevo, as well as the optic fibre cable. And at a later stage we will link this European vertical route Samac-Sarajevo-Ploce and this Belgrade-Bar route with a 120 km railway line using an old line which already exists, which will reduce the production costs. This is something that we must do urgently.

Then we also have the possibility of building another phase of the Ugljevik thermoelectric power station of 300 MW.

Vukovic The second phase.

Karadzic This is the one which is already operating; this one shown in white can be installed. This is Visegrad, which is functioning, and here we have (?Vuk Bijela) and Foca - 505 MW - for which plans have already been drawn up and feasibility studies approved. They have been passed by the European Bank EBRD , and preparatory work has been carried out.

The upper horizontal lines are not shown here, but here there are three power stations which would produce 250 MW of electricity and would also irrigate all these karst fields.

So the priorities are the links between the eastern and western parts on which all forces will be used, including work drives and public action of all kinds, and the granting of concessions, and then the hydroelectric power stations, which will be the first to show results, to yield a profit, and lastly, the connection between Sarajevo and Bijeljina.

Foreign aid, investment

Vukovic There are two situations when it comes to investment. You have said that the agreements which you have reached are without political pressure, although Bildt has different views, as far as we know.

Karadzic We are sure that there will be far less aid for us than for the Muslims and the Croats, and they will try to make aid to us conditional, politically. We will not accept any such conditions because this would mean the annihilation of the Serb Republic. Aid yes, provided that it is not conditional and provided it does not alter the Dayton Agreement. However, we are not relying too much on aid. We are a very rich country. We can - we million and a half can - live quite well, we have the resources, we have timber - our three prime products are timber, healthy food and electricity. Everything we build in the way of electricity potential can also serve exports, and these are major, very attractive capacities, so we are relying on the interest of the international community, that is of foreign investors, and not on their aid and love of the Serb people.

Army transformation

Vukovic To return to certain realities and a question with a note of warning from Boro Prastalo, a soldier from Ljubija. He asks: there is talk of peace but the Croats and Muslims are arming themselves. Could there be another operation Storm and are we preparing our defence?

Karadzic Our army is undergoing an essential transformation and is preparing itself for defence just as the whole nation is preparing itself. We have, of course, demobilized a significant number of fighters, but these fighters can be mobilized in three hours, so that if the international community does not prevent the Muslims and Croats from penetrating our territory, we will have to prevent them.

Vukovic There is another question on the subject of the army. How do you, as president and supreme commander, think that a modern army should be developed?

Karadzic I believe that we will go for a professional core - insofar as we are permitted to have an army - and that professional core will be strong and highly efficient and will be capable of absorbing reservists very quickly, so that in three to five days the peacetime professional formations will expand into war formations. Our experts in the general staff are working on this and have already produced several variants. I think we will also decide at some point on a new law on the army, law on defence, and on (?the formation) which under the constitution is signed by me, but only, of course, after I have seen all the variants and we have decided together on the most advantageous.

Treatment of refugees

Vukovic We began this conversation with many questions about refugees. I have to say that there are quite a lot of such questions because almost all of the population of the Serb Republic are refugees in a way and have been moved from their homes. How do you, as a statesman and head of state, consider that this problem can be permanently resolved?

Karadzic First of all, the population should be treated equally, materially and with regard to property, and politically. All areas, all political workers, mayors, municipal councils, party members, and so on, who do not work on the integration of this population, will not be accepted in our party nor at the elections. We will invest enormous efforts - I will personally tour many municipalities to see what the situation is like, and I will be asking for the refugee population to be integrated as soon as possible into the environment in which they have chosen to live. The local population and the usurpers cannot have several residential buildings. We should make this a punishable offence. I am asking for laws and regulations to be drafted under which everyone will be obliged to report property which he has no right to own and this will be given to refugees.

Secondly, we must apply the law on refugees, the law on property. The Ministry for Refugees has been sabotaged in many areas, in many municipalities, I don't mean by the top officials in the municipalities, but by someone in the municipalities, in certain offices. We will very quickly get rid of this phenomenon and we will not spare anyone who is doing this. We are sinning here before God and the people. These people fought for the Serb Republic and lost enormous properties. There were rich people and now in their own state, where they have arrived at last, they feel like second class citizens.

Serb Democratic Party to win elections

Vukovic So that we are not criticized by those who have different views, who belong to other parties and not the SDS Serb Democratic Party , we have two questions which sum up all the questions about us . The first is whether the SDS will win the elections and the second is how the other parties will fare, and what will happen if the SPRS Socialist Party of the Serb Republic wins - that was one of the questions.

Karadzic The SDS will win if that is what the people want, and of course if we monitor the elections well against rigging and forgery. As things stand at the moment the SDS will win with more than two thirds of the votes and even the polls of our enemies abroad indicate that we will win more than 67 per cent. The other parties will be judged by the people exclusively on their attitude towards the state and patriotism and to some extent on political and economic freedoms. I don't believe that the people will go for some little known option which supports the reintegration of Bosnia.

We hear parties which say that we do not have the right to demand to be a state, but we acquired the attributes of statehood in Dayton, far more than we would have in some kind of confederation. We have sovereign powers, legislatively, there is nothing above our assembly. Our president and government are not affected by anyone except our own people. The people elect the president and the president appoints the prime minister and influences the work of the government. The judicial authorities are sovereign, there is no-one above our supreme court. In other words we form our own army, our own police and all the other attributes of a state. We must not abandon the idea of a state and devalue Dayton. So any political force supporting the reintegration of Bosnia-Hercegovina will certainly be rejected by our people...

Serbs more united than ever

Vukovic ... I wish to ask you about the prospects for our nation and our state, about our future survival.

Karadzic ... We have received different proposals - changes thought namely, we should form the state council. There are proposals by prominent people for it not to be a council but a senate which would be established by the decision of the People's Assembly of the Serb Republic . In that case the president would appoint a senate instead of a council. The senate members would be the most prominent Serbs from the Serb Republic and from the diaspora. Their term would last at least five years. The senate would propose certain views and measures, it would advise the nation.

I believe that the Serb people are more united today than they have ever been. But they cannot be united on different ideological grounds, whether left or right. They can only become united on a the basis of common sense and maturity, on the basis of rational principles of what is good for the people. So, not entirely on the ideological basis but on the basis of national aspirations and national feelings...

I want to remind you that we have not held any political prisoners in the four years since the beginning of the war, nor have we held a single political trial or carried out a death sentence. Four people were sentenced to death for first-degree murder but the sentences were not carried out. The people have sensed all this. They know that the freedom they now have west of the River Drina for the first time in 600 years is precious, and the people word indistinct this. When we asked the Serbs to stay in Sarajevo they refused. The people would not listen to us if what we asked for was against their interests and natural aspirations.

Vukovic ... What would you tell our people at the end of this programme?

Karadzic I am very pleased that we are in contact once again. I am also pleased to receive questions directly and without censorship via the phone-in. What I would like to tell people is that they should be the masters of their own fate in an active way, not allowing any of us to stray from the natural course and their natural aspirations, and not allowing any devaluation of our achievements. The families of fallen soldiers have been the most vociferous of them all. They often tell us: don't let anyone trifle with our sacrifices and don't let anyone devalue the state and its degree of freedom. I think that the Serb people have the duty - by adopting an active political stand - not to allow anyone to lead them astray, the duty to control their own leadership and political parties, to assess them well from the point of view of their own interests, and in this sense I think that the people have the right to ask us anything and demand that their leadership be at the service of the people and not the masters of the people - for the first time in I don't know how many decades...

Karadzic interview with Moscow daily: "international community" caused war
BBC Summary of World Broadcasts - June 23, 1994, Thursday

Summary: Karadzic says that if USA decides it is time to end the war, solution will emerge, otherwise USA will propose a remedy that " spells catastrophe" for Bosnian Serbs; Americans have set up Muslim-Croat Federation to recreate an anti-Serb front; Bosnian Serbs ready to surrender some territory in return for peace - to break the deadlock would even accept 49; 51 division, if exchange was quality for quantity; insist on mouth of the Una river, sufficiently wide corridor in Posavina, rejection of border along River Drina, "our part of Sarajevo" , access to the sea; Russia "understands us" ; West is seeking to divide Serbs in order to weaken Russia; Muslims are not seeking peace, they are fundamentalist and pro-Iranian, pose threat of Islamic fundamentalism in Europe

'Krasnaya Zvezda', Moscow in Russian 21 Jun 94 p 3

Excerpt from interview with Radovan Karadzic by Sergey Sidorov in Moscow, entitled: "There are forces which regard stability in the Balkans as disadvantageous, according to Bosnian Serb Leader Radovan Karadzic"

...[Sidorov] ...What is your forecast: Will the plan proposed by the Washington contact group mark a decisive step towards peace or will the next round of discussions about peace end in a renewed escalation of the war?

[Karadzic] I do consider that the international community is largely to blame for the unleashing of this war. And if that community or, more precisely, the United States decides that it is time to end it, then a solution acceptable to the Serb side will not fail to emerge.

If, however, they decide that it is not yet time and that the war should continue, they will propose a remedy that spells catastrophe for the Serbs in Bosnia. In that case the war will continue, and the Serbs will appear to be to blame. We have, alas, had to contend with just such a technique of interference.

During my present visit to Moscow I have been able to see for myself yet again that Russia sincerely wants stability in the Balkans and is ready to support us in our striving for peace. If the United States built its relations with the Muslim side in the same way, there would already be peace in Bosnia. But the Americans are urging the Muslims to seize the greater part of the territory of Bosnia-Hercegovina. They are encouraging the Muslim leadership in its ambitions and its desire to dominate in the Balkans. This means in effect continuing this exhausting war. A war by one side to secure an Islamic bridgehead in Europe, while on our side it is a war for survival... [newspaper ellipsis]

[Sidorov] How are relations shaping up inside the Croat-Muslim Federation, created through US mediation? Does it have any prospects?

[Karadzic] We do not think it has any serious prospects. The deep-rooted conflicts between the Muslims and the Catholic Croats constitute a separate and pretty extensive topic. The Americans have restored the Croat-Muslim alliance not so much to reconcile the Croats and the Muslims, who have fought each other over the last year, as to recreate an anti-Serb front. I am, unfortunately, forced to say that some American circles are openly working for war. The war is now in their hands, and they refuse to let peace and stability prevail in the Balkans... [agency ellipsis]

[Sidorov] Tell me, have you come to that standpoint recently or have you held it since the start of the war?

[Karadzic] We had our suspicions. But over time we became convinced of the following: As soon as the sides came close to a common solution, the Americans, who had started to pretend that they wholly supported the Muslims, would enter the "game" . And that would prompt the Muslims to continue the war.

[Sidorov] If that is so, what, in your view, might be the next step by the United States on this plane?

[Karadzic] As I have already said, an attempt to impose terms unacceptable - absolutely unacceptable - to the Serbs. If the United States does actually want peace, then at least half of its initiatives will be acceptable to us and half not. Let the terms be equally disadvantageous to the Muslims and to us.

[Sidorov] As far as I recall, the Washington contact group's plan, that is to say the division of territory between the Serb community and the Croat-Muslim Federation in a 49:51 ratio, does not suit the Serb side, as you hold 70% of the territory.

[Karadzic] That formula does indeed fail to suit us because prior to the war 64% of the territory belonged to Serbs. We did not start the war and we have not lost it either. Why, then, should the Serbs have less territory after the war than before? Yet we are ready to surrender something in the interests of peace. We will surrender the 10% of the territory which is not ours. We are holding on to it at the moment in the interests of defence. But we are also ready to surrender Serb land provided there is peace. To break the deadlock we could even accept the 49:51 formula provided that an exchange of territory - quality for quantity - subsequently took place.

[Sidorov] Does that mean that it is far from being a matter of numbers and percentages?

[Karadzic] It is not just a matter of them. Discussion should also proceed in terms of the viability of the states formed in place of the former Bosnia-Hercegovina. Of course, the conditions for viability are important not just for the Croat-Muslim state but also for ours. After all, if the international community were to accept the arguments of one side and ignore those of the other, that would be an obvious injustice. Our terms are as follows: the mouth of the Una river, a sufficiently wide corridor in the Posavina, and the rejection of any border along the Drina river, which was a symbol of the Serbs'separation (half the Serbs were in the Austro-Hungarian empire and half in Serbia). In addition, we need our part of Sarajevo and access to the sea.

[Sidorov] But you know that these terms are regarded as unacceptable by the Muslim side.

[Karadzic] No, I consider that if they were in favour of peace they would accept these terms, as they pose no threat to the security of their state.

[Sidorov] How do you now rate the state of contacts with Moscow?

[Karadzic] We feel that Russia - particularly the people - understands us. The government is in a difficult position. Russia cannot afford to get into conflict with the West, but we do not want that either. For us Moscow's objectivity is the main thing. The Russian government really can play the role of mediator, as it understands both us and the Muslims. Unfortunately, the United States demonstrates a different approach.

We have no right to ask Russia to intercede in everything, but it is in Russia's own interests to see that the Serbs always have been and remain the country's most consistent allies in the Balkans. And we are, after all, now paying the price for our traditional friendship with Russia. By dividing the Serb people and weakening their state system the West has always sought to weaken Russia in some hypothetical conflict. The double standards which Western countries and Turkey are demonstrating in Balkan affairs - in their assessments, say, of the actions of the Croat-Muslim and Serb sides - cannot be explained any other way.

[Sidorov] What do you think of the intentions of your opponents - the leaders of the Muslim community? Do you concede that they are sincere in their desire for peace for their own people?

[Karadzic] We are convinced, unfortunately, that our opponents are essentially not seeking peace. These are politicians of a fundamentalist, pro-Iranian persuasion. They have already promised their co-religionists in Sudan and Iran that they will take all of Bosnia-Hercegovina under their control and become a member of the Islamic Conference. This despite the fact that there are fewer Muslims than Christians in Bosnia... [newspaper ellipsis] Not so long ago Nijaz Durakovic, former leader of the Bosnian communists, said that the Bosnian Muslims would be the best terrorists among the Islamic revolutionaries because they look like Europeans. Alija Izetbegovic expressed himself in similar vein a few days ago.

I have to say that we are facing the first threat of Islamic fundamentalism in Europe - the first but not the last. Europeans' heads will continue to ache from what has happened in Bosnia.

Karadzic interviewed on origin of Bosnian conflict and role of great powers
BBC Summary of World Broadcasts - September 30, 1993, Thursday

'Anteni' , Sofia, in Bulgarian 22 Sep 93 p 16

Excerpts from interview Radovan Karadzic by Dmitriy Yakushin, reporter for 'Moskovskiye Novosti' ; place and date not given

Summary: Karadzic gives his explanation of how the war in Bosnia-Hercegovina came about: the EC and Germany wanted the disintegration of Yugoslavia; he hopes Russia will take a more active role in the Balkans; he cannot understand the attitude of the United States to the Serbs; international public is responsible "for everything"

...[Yakushin] Were you a member of the Communist Party?

[Karadzic] I was admitted to the party when I was 17. At that time there were no other parties. In 1968 I was expelled because of my participation in the student movement. I never was a real communist, but some of the social democratic ideas, such as the idea of social justice, were close to my heart. Perhaps those ideas are even now close to my heart, despite the fact that my party belongs to the... [ellipses as published] democratic centre, and is not a leftist party . Thanks to the Eastern Orthodox faith we have always paid great attention to the ideas of social justice...

[Yakushin] Do you know Izetbegovic personally?

[Karadzic] Izetbegovic was a well-known Muslim dissident. He was imprisoned for articles about Muslim fundamentalism.

I also was a dissident for 30 years. I was a member of a circle of Serb intellectuals, but we did not intend to deal with politics. However, when the Croats and the Muslims created their parties with pronounced nationalistic programmes, aimed at splitting from the union, and the Serbs became a minority, we understood that we needed our own party, because otherwise the Serbs would have remained without representatives. The Serbs have the right to remain in Yugoslavia, precisely as the Muslims and Croats have the right to leave it.

Thus we created the Serbian Democratic Party, and afterwards we created a coalition government with the Muslims and Croats. They decided to leave Yugoslavia, but could not, because such a decision could have been adopted only with the consent of the three peoples. They betrayed our interests, so we left parliament and created our own.

In principle, Izetbegovic's programme did not presuppose a confederation or breaking away from Yugoslavia, but rather a prudent federation. The Muslim population also voted for this. However, Izetbegovic was pushed to declare independence. By whom? By the EC, and especially Germany, whose aim was to achieve the disintegration of Yugoslavia and who utilized Izetbegovic for this purpose. And so the war began.

[Yakushin] Was the war in your view inevitable?

[Karadzic] Evidently yes, because the international community wanted it...

[Yakushin] How do you assess Russia's role?

[Karadzic] Russian diplomacy plays an important and constructive role . Now people are interested in its view, despite the fact that until a few months ago they did not want to hear it. I hope that Russia will be more actively present in the Balkans, because NATO is against the Serbs. It opposes them not because of the Serbs themselves but because of the influence of Eastern Orthodox Russia. Certain circles in the United States rely on two influential states in the region - Germany and Turkey. Through Germany they want to dominate in Europe and undermine European unity, while with Turkey's help they want to influence Russia...

[Yakushin] How do you assess the role of the United States?

[Karadzic] I cannot understand it. I know the United States and value the Americans as open people. However, why do they always need an enemy? Now Russia does not fit the role, but then Iran, Sudan and the Serbs emerged. I absolutely cannot understand why are they against the Serbs. Did we not always look up to America in the 45 years we tried to construct a democracy?

I think that America is still afraid of Russia, because Russia, for the time being, is a sleeping giant. Democratic Russia will be stronger than the previous Russia, precisely as the new Serbia will be stronger than the one that was a part of Yugoslavia. However, the Americans are deceiving themselves. Democratic Russia will not be an enemy of America, while Croatia and Slovenia will always be German satellites...

[Yakushin] Could the war erupt in another place?

[Karadzic] If the international public wants a war in Kosovo, there will be a war in Kosovo. They have tolerated the war in Bosnia for 17 months now. They could stop it within a week, just as they could transfer it to Kosovo, or refrain from transferring it to Kosovo. The international public is aware of the consequences of the war in Yugoslavia. It is responsible for everything.

KARADZIC DENOUNCES IZETBEGOVIC; WARNS OF ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST STATE IN BOSNIA
BBC Summary of World Broadcasts - March 4, 1992, Wednesday

SOURCE: (a) Belgrade TV 1830 gmt 2 Mar 92 in Serbo-Croat 2028 gmt 2 Mar 92

Text of recorded ''special'' interview with Radovan Karadzic, president of the Serbian Democratic Party, by Slavica Raketic - date and place not given

[Raketic] How do you assess the situation in Bosnia-Hercegovina and the latest events?

[Karadzic] The situation is more than explosive it has actually already exploded. Several incidents and killings have taken place so far, but what happened yesterday regarding the attacks on the wedding party and on Serbian symbols has gone beyond all limits. This shows that the peak of the enslavement of the Serbian people, both in the information and political spheres, went beyond the limits of forbearance and degree of possible tolerance of the Serbian people a long time ago.

[Raketic] The crisis headquarters of the Serbian people has issued a statement with six demands, including the cessation of all activities regarding the proclamation of independence. What will the SDS [Serbian Democratic Party] do if these demands are not met?

[Karadzic] The SDS will fight with its political means, and in this sense we already have the adopted constitution of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Hercegovina. If they continue with such activities, we will promulgate the constitution - since it has already been adopted and on its basis several laws have been passed - and we will begin to function as a state organism linked with Yugoslavia. We will go in front of Europe to show how Mr Izetbegovic undermines and minimises every achievement made at the conference on Bosnia-Hercegovina.

The SDS is not omnipotent, however. It deals with a political struggle and political means, but people are dying, not from political means but from other people's bullets. The people will defend themselves. The Serbian people are quite capable in all of Bosnia-Hercegovina of completely protecting themselves.

[Raketic] Do you expect any steps to be taken by the SFRY Presidency in Bosnia-Hercegovina?

[Karadzic] We have just been to the expanded session of the SFRY Presidency and a statement was issued, which should point out and present the positions of the Presidency. I do not yet know if there will be any special actions regarding the involvement of the Federal Secretariat for Internal Affairs or the Army, but in any case the Presidency has sharply condemned the circumstances in which these events are taking place.

[Raketic] Mr Izetbegovic yesterday interpreted the results of the partial referendum as an orientation of the people in Bosnia-Hercegovina not only in favour of independence but against the separation of all three peoples. How do you respond to this?

[Karadzic] That is one of the most unbelievable examples of Izetbegovic's acrobatics with which he rejects the EC and everything that we have so far achieved, even though he earlier received a letter from Cutileiro which says that we are going forward and that there is no returning to square one.

I cannot understand Mr Izetbegovic. How does he think that he can close 35% and 1.5 million Serbs in Bosnia-Hercegovina into a state creation in which he will be the boss, and how does he think he will impose a state on Serbs which they will not accept? We will never accept a state which we have not endorsed with our signature.

There is no way that this will happen, and we have warned the EC that unverified support for Mr Izetbegovic is in fact support for a very well-camouflaged and hidden militant Islamic fundamentalism which will bring misfortune to Europe. The Serbian people are the first target of such fundamentalism and this can already be seen. We will fully brief the EC on the latest events and we will particularly inform them of the behaviour of Mr Izetbegovic, who disparages everything that we achieve with his interpretations.

[Raketic] Do you think that there could be an armed conflict in Bosnia-Hercegovina?

[Karadzic] There has already been an armed conflict.

[Raketic] A more complex one, of greater proportions than today.

[Karadzic] It could happen if (?there are really ambitions for this). I was until recently a great optimist, and I thought that one people would not resort to such means and use arms to impose their will on another people, but now I see that such plans really are being made, and there is the firm intention of imposing a solution on the Serbian people in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

I do not understand. Is it that they do not know the Serbian people or is it that they have promises or guarantees from somewhere else, but in any case this is a completely unrealistic approach. Serbs control more than 60% of the territory. We are in the position to completely close this territory within two hours and to take full control of our territories so that not even a bird could enter.

There is no one who can govern us in Bosnia-Hercegovina without our consent. The state that they want to impose on us would be much worse than any Lebanon, Cyprus, Northern Ireland, or Nagornyy Karabakh. The domination of Serbs by anyone is simply out of the question, and we do not want to dominate anyone else either.

[Raketic] Could this be interpreted as a kind of message?

[Karadzic] We have been sending this kind of message for a year and a half, since we were established. We are prepared for an agreement. We are prepared for dialogue. We are prepared for a life together. We can live with each other or next to each other. I fear that we will no longer be able to live together. We cannot stand in the same ranks, in the same army. We must separate many functions, just as the Indians and Pakistanis did, the Turks and Greeks, and the Azerbaijanis and Armenians. Simply, if our neighbours opt for militant Islam, then there can be no cohabitation in the same legal and political system.

[Note According to Tanjug (in Serbo-Croat 2028 gmt 2 Mar 92), this interview was given to Sarajevo TV.]
 

KARADZIC SAYS SOVEREIGNTY VOTE DID NOT CHANGE LEGAL POSITION OF BOSNIAN SERBS
BBC Summary of World Broadcasts - October 21, 1991, Monday

Text of recorded interview with Radovan Karadzic, president of the Serbian Democratic Party of Bosnia-Hercegovina, by Srdjan Savic in Sarajevo on 17th October

[Savic] Mr Karadzic, what is the situation in Bosnia-Hercegovina after the parliament's decision proclaiming Bosnia-Hercegovina's sovereignty? I particularly refer to the position of the Serbian people.

[Karadzic] The actual legal position of the Serbian people is unchanged, considering that nothing has been proclaimed, because a group of Muslim and Croat deputies, together with some opposition deputies, held an illegal meeting, a meeting that was both called and chaired by the Vice-President of the Assembly who does not have the right to do that. These documents could not be voted on, because, according to the constitutional procedure, they have been sent to the Council for National Equality. In brief, all this was illegal and invalid. Therefore, the position of the Serbian people has not changed.

However, something else happened. It has been openly demonstrated what our partners intend to do, what they want. What they want is to separate Bosnia-Hercegovina from Yugoslavia, to form an independent state, or even an independent state in a loose union with other states.

[Savic] Do you think that someone has influenced this decision?

[Karadzic] Not only influenced. The entire Party of Democratic Action and the Croatian Democratic Community [HDZ] did that under the patronage of Mr Izetbegovic, who did a lot of damage to himself with this, because he lost his credibility in Europe. Europe respects constitutional and parliamentary procedures very much, and will not accept such illegal acts. We think that everything was done because of The Hague and the Friday [18th October] , because of the meeting scheduled to take place in The Hague tomorrow, where one expects to hear statements such as Well, we now have four republics in favour a loose union and two in favour a federation, so let us make these two republics go into a loose union with the rest of the republics. However, this will not happen, because Serbs in Bosnia-Hercegovina should be asked about their own fate.

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